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Long: AAPL and the Marketcast

Wow what a great community.

I left at noon to drive for 3 hours to Cocoa Beach and I missed all the action today. I love when I do that so I dont make stupid mistakes.

I told you about FSLR, Pcar, now we need Lufk to move and what about NGPS it could have a great move low volume stock with a lot of potential

THis is why you diversify with puts and calls

great day

I know this isn’t this forum’s particular cup of tea, but I was curious if there are any short-term traders out there…intraday to three days max.

The reason I ask is because I attended Stacy Acevedo’s Advanced Options course this past weekend and am in search of learning materials (online, offline or otherwise) for short-term index trading ala Stacy. I’ve had decent success with day trading opening gaps, but I want to expand my…um, options.

Any help would be much appreciated.


P.S. Jeff, very cool on the Podcast. I’m less bitter about last week’s 47-second MasterTalk now. I missed the live version and will miss this week’s as well on account of my traveling to UT for the 3-day. I’m comin’ for you, man.


Speaking of itunes...maybe you could offer some advice here.

I have an open long position in the AAPL Jul 115/105 Call (credit @ 5.10). I remain bullish on appl and I think it has more to go. I am trying to find the best possible trade. I was thinking about selling some OTM call spreads about 10% higher to create a condor (but it could run to that level with the hype if they execute well, and it looks like they will). Another option is to leg out of the 115 call and remain long the 105. Do you see a trade here to increase profits or am I falling into a trap?



You still have time with Julys. Why not just let those run and if you see an entry point, add to your position with a different month.

bull market, AAPL looking very sweet. I can not come close to answering your question. I just think to myself......Buy calls and forget spreads......(unlimited gains vs. limited gains)
Simply my $.02

GNK. wait for consolidation... But WOW!!!! Give it a look

GNK. meant wait for next bounce.

Jeff, I am just downloading the market cast. What a great idea, Thanks.

In the last set of posts you mentioned that you had blown up a couple of account. How did you get back in the game. I have done that too and every time I look at trying to get into the " perfect setups" we see I hear a voice that says what if it goes against you and I can't seem to pull the trigger on the real trade. I can do it in the paper trade account but it is hard to get back on. Any advise suggestions, anyone?


Liz (and Grant), I have the rx for your withdrawls.....check w your cellphone provider and see if they have internet cards. My husband got me one for mother's day (verizon) and it is great and they make some that you can use in a USB port, so if you don't have or don't want to get a laptop,you can use it in the USB port of their desktop....of course it would be bad manners to be on the computer ALL day, but reasonable to check in like twice a day ;)

I saw, for the first time, the iphone commercial !!! (i never watch tv) It is sooo cool, i want one !!!! wish i had some AAPL to help me pay for one, but missed the entry back at $90 and/or $110 and the rest is history.... are a funny guy, precariously strange, but funny (LOL)....what if "we" had a big campfire and a banjo and sang your lil song, it would be a good time...right?? does anybody know how to play a banjo ??

Since Friday..352 posts.....make that 353....where is my abacus?

what a blog


We were actually thinking of doing something like that. Grant's mom might get a little upset if I was on the computer all day. I wouldn't be though. It would be a good excuse to stay hidden away. A bottle of wine, no glass would also help.

I haven't seen the iPhone commercial yet but I got sucked in a couple weeks ago on the apple website and I ended up listening to Steve Jobs talk about the iPhone for about an hour at the MacWorld conference. I want one too! So cool! My thought was, finally we're going to get something here first before Asia and Europe. All the computers and phones I want aren't available in the US but this one will be. Though, I won't be able to buy it right away. Actually, I don't know when I'll be able to buy it but it's going on my dream board!

And I do not know how to play banjo but a campfire sounds good. Who are we going to roast? Sorry, what are we going to roast. Maybe some UAUA?

Oh and by the way fellow bloggers... even though it took me a VERY long time to read through all the threads today... I do not beat my husband. Well, at least not on a regular basis. Only when he deserves it. And he'll be getting a beat down tonight for telling everybody. Kickboxing has come in handy. hee! hee!

I don't even know what to say about the "X". She's been good to me too. And so has POT. I also added a little OIH in there for some good measure.


okay, i have done some searching and have came up with a few bearish ideas to add to the watchlist...

IACI....turned down about a month ago, exhaled, and looks like it wants to go down some more

ISLN....(this one is not for me...volume too low) but maybe someone can use it....looks like a picture perfect entry point

C may be setting up for an entry point, although i see some congestion around 55ish

APOL is kinda at a diagonal and horizontal area of support

WHR has been in a sideways channel for a while, maybe keep it on the radar and watch for a break above $115 or a break below $110

well thats all i have, jeff already called all the "good ones", i guess thats why he's the chief

i predict a strong rally by days end weds.....

good night, sleep tight


How do I subscribe to Marketcast?



That is the reason many people fail. It's the deep psychological damage from the big losses.

I went through an entire transformation period. First, I learned to take losses. That was a huge step. Then I started taking too many losses, and I had to get better at knowing when a trade had ABSOLUTELY failed, and not just slightly drifted outside my exit area. Then I had to get better at finding good setups. When I had mastered those principles, I thought I could do anything. Then I got crushed and had to learn diversification. Then the market took off and I had to learn to not be afraid to ride the trend. Remember my quote: "Don't pick the top, just move the stop."

Here's the bottom line: When you're down, you can feel like the worst trader in the world. You can feel like a failure. There's a lot of soul-searching that takes place and it takes time to build your account back up. It's during THAT time where you will develop the skills and discipline so that when you have a larger account again, you will be a much better trader.

Remember, it's just a fact that not everyone will trade professionally. However, the few people who want it bad enough, work hard enough, and have the time and access to capital to make it happen will make it. Others will be very successful trading while taking down other jobs. That's a pretty good situation, too. You can be an option addict and still bring in a weekly income. My problem was that I was becoming horrible at my job because I just couldn't do it anymore while there was a market open. And sadly, others will quit. I just refused to give up and I knew in my heart that I could be one of the best traders in the world. I refused to let anything scare me or stop me.

Does this help?


I think you just helped more of us than you realize ... thank you! I got to look in the mirror as I read your post.

I'm at the stage of trading small position sizes, and learning the hard way of "knowing when a trade had ABSOLUTELY failed." To wit: still holding those Jul 95 Puts on IBM because it's just not worth paying the commission to close the trade. I wish this was my only example. No worries. Not losses, just additional tuition.

The limited experience has brought me back to mastering the basics, building a base with a few more stock positions, and paper trading every day. Most important is having a trading partner and this community. As I mentioned in my post yesterday, Steve K. (Mr. Harami) and I met while sitting in the front row of the Investools "sign me up" workshop. We hold each other accountable to do the things we need to be doing. As for this forum ... well, it's all been said before and it boils down to one word: gratitude (Thanks again, Jeff).

BTW, does anyone know how I can get my screen name to show next to my picture? The name is there, but the background field is white instead of gray.

Enough for now. Time to prepare for the rest of the day.

"Floyd Rudy Turbo"

Karen, to subscribe to the marketcast, open up iTunes and click on the iTunes store. Search the store for "investools marketcast" and you will see the podcast come up in the results with a "subscribe" button. Click subscribe and you're in.


Again your comment hit the spot. I read and reread it several times. I am in that low spot. Anyone looking at my account would probably call me a dreamer and a fool. But there is something deep inside that won't let me walk away. I love trading, looking at chart, seeing the setups feeling the movement of the trade. I know in my heart and gut I was meant to do this. Just like you described feeling like the worst.

I know how to take losses now even the big ones. I reading closely the ideas of diversification from this blog and trying to find the method that fits best with me. But there are many things in your post I don't know. like how to tell the difference between an absolute failure of a trade of just a slight drift outside my exit. Can you help me there.

How did you go about building your account back up?

How did you get better finding good setups? There are so many in the last few weeks it is hard to know which ones to take.

Did you use paper trading to fine tune your skills before building the account back up?

Just also wanted to thank you for taking the time and being willing to share.


Futures look ugly. Maybe some puts on the DIA!!! Tighten my stops...

Michelle, new stop is a close below $510 it that helps.


Not sure what you were saying about getting along and being happy in this blog. Was anyone not happy? This is cool sandbox, so are you, an you can shoot a bow and arrow anytime with me!


Hmm, another poem aye...we shall see.

Brett, you hit the nail on the head and described precisely what I have gone through in trading over the past two years. I have taken some huge, and stupid I might add, losses. I'll bet if this blog was around when I started trading, I'd have more money and write less poems!

Another bearish day today...the bulls waiting to run. I think Stephen should lead the charge!


I started trading spreads to get my confidence back. Then I had some winners but watched how much more I COULD have had so i ditched that strategy and got more aggressive, but always with an eye on risk management. It begins to snowball for you in a good way. You need to lay the groundwork first by taking solid trades and quickly weeding out the bad ones. Then, have the patience to plan for longer moves. Remember, it isn't going to happen overnight.

Thanks, Bob.



How did you start to tell when the trades had definitely gone against you? I guess I am asking how did you first start to weed out the bad trades?

Anyone having problems with their prophet charts "daily" time frame working properly, or slow?


There is no set rule I can give you. In other words, you can (and should) make a list of rules for trading. But just like support/resistance are 'areas' and not hard lines, you have to develop your own feel through experience as to when a trade has failed, or merely just moved a little further outside the lines in the context of a larger trend.

You can only learn by doing. And for me, personally, paper trading doesn't teach anything. Let me clarify: I don't slam anyone for paper trading. It just doesn't work for me.

Thanks Brett,
I get what you are saying. Sometimes it helps to just realize there is no magic bullet. You just have to jump in and learn.

You have the magic bullet. This blog. You just have to learn how to shoot it.


Pull the trigger by keeping your trade sizes small. There's nothing wrong with trading 1 contract per trade until you establish a track record and confidence.


You guys are awesome. I really appreciate your help and support. Mike I will do this.

Anu, I agree 100% with Brett and MikeH. Papertrading taught me about the mechanics of placing orders, but that's about it. I had to trade real money in order to learn how to deal with the emotion, which is in my opinion, the biggest factor in trading.

I still trade 1-2 contract positions and keep my total dollar risk extremely low for each trade. I am gradually raising it but I repeat, gradually.

Investools teaches risking 1% on a trade, but for me, based on my account size, 1% was too much. I think you have to figure out a total dollar amount that you're comfortable risking, not a percentage.

Figure out a dollar amount that you can lose and not sweat it, then only risk that amount. This might mean you have to pass on some trades for which even one contract is too big. I do it all of the time. I can't trade GOOG or CME right now, but I know I'll get there once I train myself emotionally.

I should clarify -- find a total dollar amount that is right on the border of making you uncomfortable. As you get comfortable with that, gradually raise it. This is how I train myself to deal with the emotions.

Good morning

Does anyone else see Mstr breaking to the downside?


I'm kind of confused to where I should draw my resistance line on it.

Any suggestions


Brett and Anu, thanks for your discussion today as it was perfect for what is happening to my account today. The emotions of last week came back again until I calmed down and read through Brett's wise thoughts.
I tried to get more diversity (PUTs) but none would fill and now it looks like I would have to chase them, which I am not inclined to do. I tighten my stops on a couple last night after looking at the futures and both stopped out still with a gain just not as high as it was yesterday.
Thanks for the support everyone.
The trade alert I set for MSTR triggered a few minutes ago...


On a 5 year chart, it is right at a support area on a diag trend line.

Hmmm, could be a good trade here coming up...

Bob and Pam,
There are still some great puts you can get into. I just entered MSTR. I am watching CYMI. It has faked me out before. Looking for it to break and HOLD below 40.
Look at some of the airline stocks, LCC, etc. KIM, KMX.

I think we better batton down the hatches and hope our positions hold. It is also a good time to look for entry points in stocks that have been on fire.

X is still holding strong today. What a stock. I think that counts as relative strength when it hold and moves up in two down days of trading. GOOG is also holding and staying strong the last two days.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

Randall and Michelle


Thanks for the insight


Liz read the blog from yesterday, I got the bruises to prove it

CME just got more interesting..

Put on your rally caps for



Thanks R&M and Grant Pam just had me setup her computer so she can link direct to the Blog so I am on my best behaviour. I am in LCC, PSA (again) and looking at MSTR. Why is it that on down days like this we always seem to have computer problems and I have meetings that take me away most of the day? I have to rely on those hated stops. Amy do you have to enter your end of day contingent stop each day? That is what TOS is telling me that I cannot use GTC with a time/date. I cannot always do this daily and that is what stopped me out of CRS and NM first thing this morning.

How about these for a Bearish trade? Any opinions? I like HNI and OXM.


Brent in San Antonio

Check out JCI

GRP at a low risk entry right now for any bulls, speaking of which, where are they??

AVB down to $126 ish

Ladd - Think Cramer mentioned JCI last night on Mad Money. He also talked about B. Check out B today. Cramer effect. Short lived?

Brent in San Antonio

I saw B as well, checked the news (on think or swim) and saw that Cramer talked about it. I did not see any news about Cramer talking about JCI?? But I believe you.

looks like a Sym. Tri. on DRQ
just food for thought

Hi Anu,
I just want to agree with Tim's comments about trading small amounts. I've been trading real money since Jan (like others paper trading taught me mechanics but not handling emotions). I started with one contract and a risk amount I was comfortable with. I now trade 2 contracts and sell one when I reach my first target and let the other run. This is still my learning time. I have contracts in lots of stocks (15 right now) so I can watch and learn. I have some puts to learn from (still not many winners there). The bulk of my money is still in mutual funds and my 401K. I'm only trading around 15-20% until I feel more confident. Part of that is in stock and some of the things Eric recommends on the Marketcast like GLD, DBV, SHV. I never miss the Marketcast unless I'm out of town (my husband tells me he's getting jealous -- only kidding. He loves what I'm doing) This is working well for me. I'm learning how to lose and I've managed to keep my trading portion in the black. I love this blog. You have all helped me so much. I'm especially grateful to Jeff. I take his watchlist and use it to help me see patterns and practice my analysis. And then I trade what fits in my rules. I traded CME once and realized quickly it was too big a risk for me at this point.
Katherine from Molalla, OR

DUDES...... X.......

X Forshizzle yohacasha! Respect
watch PENN for re entry

Don't see any compelling trades today. Bought MSTR put, added to my MLM position and just going to wait for the bulls to come in tomorrow. I know we needed a bit of a breather for the market to head higher, but my profits got chopped into today. Thank goodness for X and POT and GOOG.

Thank you Eric and Jeff for teaching us diversification, diversification. A few months ago, I would have done serious damage to my account on days like today and yesterday.
Randall and Michelle

SIX is still a go (ref yesterday's post)

DGX at channel support. Setting up for another run to 53?

ISIL Jun 30 calls bought early May looking less sick.

IBM - not much of a double top, but a $4 pullback would really help the Jul 95 & 100 puts (relearned rule: never reinforce failure).


"Ignorance is the parent of fear"
- Melville (Moby Dick)


You are the one green in a sea of red. Oh, how I love thee.

When the market goes down, you go up instead. Oh, how I love thee.

(oh, and ditto for X)

Ladd - I may be wrong about Cramer mentioning Johnson Controls. It wasn't a feature but I think he metioned it during the lighting round our something. I like to watch Cramer. I know he's not a favorite here but I like Cramer. He cracks me up. Although I take very few of his recommendations I have found a couple of gems listening to him.

Days like today are good for counting blessings. I'm thankful I bought AAPL before earnings. I'm thankful I bought MO before the Kraft spin off (thanks Cramer). I'm thankful that I have a lot of AFL which is pretty resilient on days like today. Otherwise my accounts are getting hammered. I bought some puts on HNI and OXM but I am way net long. A lot of my positions are getting very close to my stops. This is the part that really tests me. I have a hard time taking those losses (who doesn't?)

I'm most concerned looking at $SPX. Where's our nice bounce?

Anyone (or everyone) else worried as well?


Short: HNI, OMX and the ability to take losses when I know I should

Thanks Jeff and bloggers

Brent in San Antonio

Tim and Katherine thanks.

I saw several comments about entering the MSTR put today. Does anyone have any comments on how they determine which trades they are willing to enter during the day versus waiting til the end of the day.



I will on occasion get in on a trade intra day if I see that the price is right at a support level for s stock I am watching. For example, GRP today at around 11am EST was right at my support line, for me, a low risk entry.

I've got a trendline on the spx from about 4/17 or so and today we are pulling right back to it. At least that's how I see it.

Remember that the market likes to push on those lines. I try to think about how the chart will look a couple of months from now. If the spx turns up from where it is right now, it will fit right in the trend.

If it takes another dive tomorrow, now that's a different story.

Anyone else see it differently?

BNI -- now that one is crossing my lines. May have to exit that one end of day if this keeps up. I hate to because I have been so patient forever with this one, but right now it's well below my horizontal and diagonal support.

Thoughts anyone?

I know a lot of people wait til the end of the day to trade. I don't. If I see a good stock with good volume, I enter. Oftentimes, if you wait til the end of the day, you miss half the move. But beware of fake-outs like CYMI that look like the move and then move back the other way. I guess the short answer is I enter a trade whenever I see it making the move I think it should regardless of the time of day.



I am not happy either since it is kicking my butt right now. But a pullback in the market overall has been expected. I am giving BNI a little thicker line in the sand so to say. A close below $90 and I am out.

Looks like stocks with relative strength are AAPL, SLB, X, GOOG.

They are in the green on a red day.

Looks like GOOG is really holding up on good volume on this Bear day.
I am going into buy a few June 520 Calls. I believe tomorrow will continue with strength.

Any Concensus on this move ?

I'm right there with you on BNI. I'm still in it but may exit today. It's below my mental stop now but I'm waiting until the end of the day to see what happens.

Brent in San Antonio

I normally wait until end of day or place limit orders at night but since I will be out for the rest of the day I did place an order for MSTR today and it then did a 180 and crossed over that 100 line. C&C I recall you stating that what you traded awhile back would be good to do the opposite to make money - that is me today. What is tough to take is that I make $400 to $600 on the good days and drop $1600 to $2000 on days like this and so I never catch up.
Interesting too that NM and CRS stopped out as I raised the stops as CRS was a JUN Call and NM had passed my target. NM was a stock trade that I made money and CRS closed at zero plus commission. Last week they were all losses that stopped out so maybe I am learning slowly.
My two greens X and LCC are lost in a sea of red.

Tim, I see exactly what you have drawn in. I think that there is also somewhat of a horizontal support at the 1515 area.

In terms of the intra day entry, how do you approach the breakouts? For these do you wait until the end of the day as these may not hold the breakout point?

What if GOOG pulls back for a few days, then trades sideways for a bit before making a run higher? Are Junes enough time for you? They expire in 7 days....That is the question....

David, I see your logic on GOOG. If it were me I'd place a limit order in anticipating of the price going to about 513-514 (halfway down yesterday's long candle). But, that's just me.

Tim, I see your trendline on the SPX. But, I just know that a lot of people were looking for a bounce at 1525-1530 and we went well below that. I hope you're trendline holds.

Have I said it lately? - I love this blog.

Brent in San Antonio

Can someone translate this into English? TK dropped $2.00+, obviously this is not good news, just want to understand and load into memory banks for the future. It looks like the completion of a take-out.

"Teekay Corporation (NYSE:TK) and A/S Dampskibsselskabet TORM (TORM) (CSE:TORM) (NASDAQ:TRMD) today announced the completion of the tender offer by their jointly owned subsidiary, Omaha, Inc. (Omaha), for the outstanding shares of common stock of OMI Corporation (OMI) (NYSE:OMM) at $29.25 net per share in cash."

Also is this trade "Dead", meaning it's not going anywhere fast, so might as well exit? Eric Utley said as much about EEP after they offered 5.3 million in new shares and it dropped like a rock.


Bob Raimo,

Whether you like it or not,
you've filled up a POT

With many a poetry reciting,
be they up or down REITing

See what you've started,
it's toe-tapping or maybe they f*rted!


My thoughts on BNI are that is is at my trend line support. I tend to draw my trendlines from the wicks on the candles, for me this has shown to show a better support area. It gives stocks a little more room to fluctuate intraday.

Jon P.
OC, Oregon

I don't want to be all doom and gloom. But, I scrolled through my watch lists of a couple hundred stocks earlier and can't believe how many gapped down this morning.

Also, is anyone watching $TNX?

I need to get out and do something. I'm going to get an ulcer watching $TNX go up and $SPX go down.

Where are the "buy the dippers"?

By the way -

I love this blog.

Brent in San Antonio

I have June calls that I just bought yesterday. I think if GOOG is going to make a move, it will do it soon. It depends on how you are playing it. I got in GOOG at 480, but got out too early and am just along for a quick buck. But Julys might be a better buy. Just my 2 cents' worth. So I guess the bottom line is, I would probably buy July not June if I were you. Better bang for the buck (even though they cost more.)


TK is a "good" example of what happens to me when I am patient and I let my winners run. Although, when ISIL crashed down to $29, I waited, it came back and I was able to exit with some dignity and a smaller loss. Perhaps the same will happen with TK. I have July Calls. A lot can happen between now and then...

Chuck in Orlando

GS and EWZ are right at support for anybody who might have been watching these for entry points. I own stock in both of these and they are good stocks.


brett, thanks for sharing your thoughts. i copied and pasted it into a word doc that i intend to refer to

Jodi, sorry i missed your post yesterday...glad i could make you laugh....

VLO and BNI making me have a "boo face" today

X is shock amazing !!! currently down .54

Okay, Stephen, where's that breakout of VIP? Hey, I think it would take a Mack truck to break out today. But we're all still watching it.

Chip’s in the game
And he says I’m to blame
I wrote one little poem
From my desk here at home
Glad you all got a laugh
Now get back to your graph
Pay attention my friends
To your lines and your trends
There’s a smell in the air
And not that of a bear
I’ll bet you are thankful
It is that of a bull

Another classic from the Master.
Option addicts are very creative people.



Between you and Brett... I'm going to have to start buying new monitors. At least you guys keep it lively.

I'm glad I have PAY.
Kinda sad about OIH today. But it doesn't look bad in the overall scheme of things.
And the X. I love her!


By the way....TK has NOT broken the 50 day average. Not sure if that is comforting...but at least that should mean something.

Chuck in Orlando

Touché Bob, Touché !


While you are certainly a cool looking dude, I take offense to the red glasses today. I think a pair of Green ones are needed, necessary, and proper. I've had enough of the color red today.

Days like yesterday and today are hard but thanks to all of you not as hard as they used to be. I'm fortunate to be able to monitor all day most days and I used to sit glued to the market matrix screen all day on down days second guessing my stops. Today I've been able to walk away and get some other stuff done. Learning to deal with my emotions is my biggest challenge. I'm making progress. And divisification is helping big time. Thanks Jeff and everyone. Yeah for X, POT and PAY. Thinking about buying more NM (I'm doing great on it) on this little dip. I'll wait to the end of the day and see where it is.
Katherine from Mollala, OR


I tried hard to hang on to this but I am out. The reason I bought this stock is not happening and the pattern looks broken. In fact, it's looking more like the makings of a double or triple top than the ascending triangle I thought it was. It started the day below my trend line so it would have to not only rally $2.50 in the next hour an a half but would have to end up plus on the day for me to say I should have waited. It could happen but I don't think so.


Anu, I will take a support bounce or a resistance bounce intraday, even with below average volume, and ride the bounce. But, I never take a support or resistance breakout until the last 20 to 30 min of the day.

Is everyone in shock today...?

Things are creepy quiet around this place...

Hey Bob, how about another poem to wake these folks up!

Long time no see!! I am having internet woes! One good thing is that you can't be emotional about what you can't see. I have missed being apart of the dialog.

My trends are staying intact during this market pullback. I am only concerned about BNI, but one day doesn't make a trend. I too struggle with "when a trade has failed or just drifted outside my exit area." After reevaluating my journal...this is my biggest obstacle. Thanks to YOU ALL, I am working on it...a great example is BNI.

Bob...a retreat sounds awesome. No bows, but I can shoot a gun. I only kill skunks, armadillo, coyotes, or anything else that doesn't belong in my yard...BEWARE!

Bob and Pam,
I use the contingent orders when I am away from the computer. Once the order is place (last two minutes of the day), the order can be filled. If you use GTC, then the order is still marketable the next day. So if the stock dips intraday, you are out. I too have to replace my order, but I usually just call TOS and ask them to place the orders that didn't fill yesterday. I know you are trying to trade while you are at work. I have only used these a few times...maybe I was not the best person to ask. Throw it out there for others to comment on.

Your comments mean the world...thanks for your ongoing support. Would love to hear your thoughts on BNI. I am currently holding the position trying to look at the big picture.

As I continue my quest for becoming a better trader...A thought comes to mind. "You can't change and stay the same." Meaning, I can't continue to make the same mistakes and expect a different outcome. I usually ride a stock up to new or old high and get out when the stock pulls back. BNI, once again, is the perfect example. Maybe that is why I am holding onto the trade.

Sorry for the book, but it makes up for the lack of posts over the last week.

Good day, everyone

IF you take a bounce trade intra day and it violates that support or resistance do you exit the same day with the small loss?


thanks for the kind words. As for BNI, let me answer your question with a few questions:

1) Has the stock done roughly what you thought it would do?

2) Is your current loss less than what you originally calculated?

3) If you were looking at this setup today, would you take a bullish trade on it?

If you can answer yes to all 3 questions, then I think you should stay in the trade.

This comment has been removed by the author.


My line in the sand has held all day, a day with a nice pullback.

Even after 10am as the markets kept falling, BNI held. It's the little engine that could.

Three good questions. I answered all of them "no" so I guess my getting out of BNI was the right thing to do.


I will not buy my option after the fade, I will not buy back my option after the fade, I will not buy back my......


Before you play an intra day bounce, you must know how the trade will play out before you put money on the table. What is your plan?

3)risk v. reward
4)time frame
5)How much does the stock move daily in price?
6)what is my exit plan, my perverbial line in the sand
7)how much am I wiling to lose

And much more...

Am I trading a bounce on a trending stock, a pattern trade?

Is the stock bouncing off a trendline within a pattern that is settting up?

I dont exit intra day on a trend line violation, I wait for a close. I need an overwhelming reason to get out intra day..And I don't counter trend trade..those hurt me more often than not..

Hope some of this helps....

DECK is walking all over this down day.

This market has been X-rayed for the past week.

I have to PAY for my refinery trades!

And Bob, you are a wealth of information! Thanks.

Anu, If an intraday support bounce turns down and closes below support, I exit with one exception - if it closes only slightly below support (for ex, .50) and volume is low, I wait another day. Also, I failed to include in my earlier post that I only take breakouts with good volume. This works for me.Perhaps as I get more experience like Bob and Brett have, my rules will be less rigid.
Hope this helps.

Brett great questions. Never thought of looking at it that way.

So, on BNI, #1-yes, #2-yes, and #3 no. I would wait for confirmation tomorrow to see if 90 is an area of support. If has made a lower high, so I would look for confirmation. I guess that means I should wait for confirmation to get out. I am willing to take the risk. Like I said, if I continue to make the same mistakes, I don't get to move forward.

Also, thank you Bob. Great comments.

Today's dialogue has been extremely helpful.

I guess there is a reason why X is a steel stock .... Been a while since I have seen this type of resilience .. Amazing ....

Great blogging today guys ... Brett and Bob ... your explanations to Anu have enlightened us all ...


Here I sit in the airport... getting ready to head to Vancouver. It's a down day, but overall these last two days we're going to be net in the green.

Bob (and Pam) you have to believe that you're going to pick the right ones, once you learn how. I have had many days where it just seemed to make more sense to pack it in. Today I sit here with PFCB going ballistic and saving me from a bad day. That one was so very, very hard to hang on to as it brushed the support line, but never CLOSED above it. If I'd traded intra day I would have sold it. Instead, I've gone from a 40% loss to a 38% gain in three days.

Wish I had more time.

Regarding TK and what to do with it. Why scratch your head over the news. Rotate out of TK into one of the other stocks in the segment. The watershipping group is still hot. Look to an alternative stock like DRYS, QMAR, NM or EXM (there's a whole bunch flashing buy signals) and grab one of those.

Regarding MSTR, I want to see this stock break down through 100 before going short.


Sure is a lot of selling into the close.

I exited BNI. Sad to see it go, but I had to get honest about my rules and my expectations. Though it is close to holding a support area, to me the trend is broken. At the every least, it just today formed an equal low. One might even call it a lower low.

My expectation for the trade was that it would hold its trendline and make a higher high. Never did and finally today broke the trend.

This is a tough one and I think it is very likely it will recover and continue its trend if the market recovers. I will have to watch and readjust my rules if that is the case. But using the rules I'm using now, I had to exit.

I got stopped out of a couple of positions, and my account is down..... is this day over yet?


There was decidedly less JEFF than I'd like here today, but that didn't stop me from visiting his brother JEF once again.

It is times like this that reminds me as to why I invested in my education with Investools. It doesn't matter what kind of market we are in,,,we know how to trade it. Anyone that can fog up a mirror can trade in an outrageous bull market. We know how to trade all market conditions. We just need to remember that. If this is the top ,and the market goes down for the next ten years,,,remember,,,we know how to make a killing in it. Even if it goes sideways in a hundred point range for ever,,,,we can make money on that also. I just wanted to remind those people that might be feeling uncomfortable,,,that this is no big deal. We are educated,,,,and we can make money no matter what the markets do.



Thanks for your information through the day!

Okay Addicts, I have to confess...I fell off the wagon today...

Hi my name is Chip and I'm an Option Addict...

I let my emotions get the best of me...but only in my refinery stocks, SUN and TSO. They tanked between the down day and the Petroleum Refinery Report and I panicked.

I had been doing so well, following my rules, holding unless trends were broken and yes, at the end of the day they were still broken, although had I waited, it wouldn't have been quite as ugly...

Lost a lot of unrealized profits in both; took a loss in one and gained the same amount in the other. So together they were a wash, although still very discouraging...mostly in myself for my indecision and then bailing intraday. I thought I had my emotions all under control and in-check...but not so fast buddy!

So, I'll chalk it up to another learning experience.

I DID hold (appropriately) in ALL of my other positions, although some are right on the border. Another down day tomorrow and I'm out of those.

Thanks to all for the information and encouragement. Hang in there, another Great Day awaits!!!

I ended up selling a few profitable trades today because my "letting winners run" rules finally told me to sell. I haven't sold this much stuff in one day in a while and it makes me feel a little strange.

But, I had to stay true to my rules. I think the problem is that I haven't really been in a position of having this many profitable trades before so I don't have much experience taking the profits. If they all continue to scream higher from here I may have to revisit my rules, but I guess for now that's all I can do.

Anyone else every suffer from seller's remorse?

That's what I did last month (I think it was) when we had a couple of down days. I panicked and sold almost everything, even profitable trades. I came out 1500 dollars up. That's where I was, and I didn't feel bad about it.
Today I held on and got stopped out of two positions (one had too tight a stop and bounced back up).
Don't apologize. You are where you are. That's why we are learning. That's why we visit this blog. Hey, you're trying to preserve your capital. Maybe next month you'll react differently. But just count it as a learning experience. Hope this helps.


Thanks Michelle. Yeah, the way I have been trading has been to be very patient and let the stock reach my target but then from there I try to manage it pretty tightly looking for short term weakness.

I don't use automatic stops but you could say I have been moving my mental stops up as the stock goes higher. Like Brett says "don't pick the top, move the stop".

This is the first day I've had several winners all move down across my mental stop on the same day, so it felt weird.

Thanks for the encouragement. It helps.

And for the record...

I've got a load of bullish trades all sitting on support and ready to move. So, I'd be very much in favor of a nice bounce in the markets like we've seen so many times over the past few months.

I'm prepared either way, but if it suits everyone else just as well, let's turn this thing around tomorrow.

Jumped on the SPX at the close. Ever so slighly under my trend line but +/- 2 I can handle.

Question for the masses: a number of the stocks for which I have options show an after-hour gain exactly equal to today's loss. RIG, BNI, CFC, COL. I'm sure there's a logical explanation for this, I just don't know it. Is there some way to lock in the ability to sell at yesterday's closing price?

Yea today was a lot of red for me and some regrets. I sold out of AAPL to preserve a gain, saw it move up then above my previous level bought back in but only half my previous position, then it dropped way down, I set my limit to get in at 3.00 but the low was only 3.10 so I missed the run back up again. only filled one contract on GS, that could have been a decent gain as well.

I am hoping for a nice bounce again tomorrow, I almost wish apple would drop again so I can get back in cheaper but oh well.

Do you guys think it will rebound? The reason for selling today seemed kind of weak IMO.


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About me

  • I'm Option Addict
  • From Saratoga Springs, Utah, United States
  • I am a professional trader and an instructor for Investools. I've had relations with the markets for 9 years. Born in Concord, CA, but reside in Saratoga Springs, Utah. Father of THREE, Husband of one.
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