Friday Trivia

Congrats to Loretta who won the first ever "Friday Trivia" competition here on Option Addict. The question was to name the controversial trade idea I presented in my first ever Mastertalk presentation back in the spring of 2006. The answer was Boeing (BA).

The trade was controversial since aggressive option trading/momentum trading was unheard of in these spotlight presentations. I chose a one month out, out-the-money put on a conservative stock like BA trading at it's highs. It yielded over a 250% return in a week. This was one of the "big trades" that put my name on the map.

It was also a controversial trade since at the time a well known figure was adamant on buying Leaps on this stock. Literally at the same time. Names withheld to salvage the pride of others.

Loretta, you are the lucky winner of a new DVD set. This set was offered to me as an extra to hand out to a deserving individual. Send me your mailing address and they are on their way. I can't reference the name/title/type of DVD's for fear that some assbag will jump my case about it.

Thanks for the fun and games, and for the close of a great week. Have a great weekend everyone.

Recommendation: I need some photos. I missed the opportunity to thank the individual that offered to "be my billboard" and sport my gear. I say we start another competition "Show Me Your Stuff" competition. Gimme a photo of you in your gear. Best photo wins another top notch prize.

Long: Photos, competitions and prizes

Short: E-mails.

Disclaimer: I have plenty of top notch prizes.

How about a little Nugent to send us into a weekend?

Thank you Mr Kohler sir for that video of Nugent, awesome just awesome. A special thanks for all you do for all of us Jeff. et,et,et, I'm still in GRMN with you as I have not seen the pattern fail yet.


What a great prize!! Goodies to help me further my trading education.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO. I've sent you a more personal testimonial along with my mailing address.

I'm glad you posted this so soon. I didn't want to stand-up my friend for dinner but I didn't know if I could wait to find out my prize till later LOL.

Thanks to all the bloggers for their congrats and for all your contributions to this community.


I was the one that threw out the idea of using buy stops to get into trades. Sorry it took this long to get back to your question,,I had to work today,,,and thus the reason I love using buy stops,,,I started using them in the forex markets to get into trades because who the heck can watch those markets 24 hours a day.
The way I love to use them is if I see a trade setting up,,,,ie,,flagging,getting near support/resistance,,I will place an order for a buy stop,or sell stop,, I have very specific buy and exit rules before I ever place the trade,,,this way I take emotion completely out of the trade, and the trade is completely planned out before I ever hit the send button.

If you have any more questions I would be happy to share what works for me,,,,but remember,,,everyone has to trade what makes sense to them,,and fits their rules.
You can email me if you have questions.



You are the man! You are the Oracle of Options and I just have to say again how great you are and how much I appreciated your selfless giving. Specifically thank you for pointing out CAM,DIOD,PCLN,WYNN, and gold,,,,all of these trades have locked in at least 40% profits this week,,,que the Barney song,,,have a wonderful weekend,,you deserve it


It has been a tough day I know
and you must be feeling low,

so I thought I would write
and comment on your plight,

what you did was for the good of the group
but your methods were about as clear as pea soup,

I am glad that you and Michelle are still friends
and that you both have made amends,

but next time you want to blow off some steam
step back and take of HUGE swig of Jim Beam,

and direct your frustration toward your old nemesis
so we are not viewed as trading supremacists,

I can take it Raimo, and I got your back
especially when that chicken "Anonymous" is on the attack,

so differences aside, please let me assist
I truly don't care about your limp wrist.

because I know that by the end of this year
it is the Phantom that you will most revere!!


Way to go team getting back into the game! Making this a trading blog again I am amazed how things completely turned around!


I knew you were a good trader after listening to your Master Talk, then when I searched your name on the Internet and found this blog. I had no idea to the amount of time and dedication you had to the game.

I take all your data and information that you post and analysis it and take your watch list ideas and incorporate them into my own. I have done very well with some of those ideas and others I put on wrong and got blasted to my own lack of judgment. I also look at how others use those ideas and follow how they process the information.

The video that you showed today was great it is good to get back to the basics because it is easily over looked when we feel we have all the answers and have the mind set of the know it all attitude..

I can’t thank you enough from all the information that you pour into this blog and try to grow us and build us into better traders. If we as a group took in half of what you were doing it would blow our minds and explode our accounts!! We have to fail to succeed in this game of trading. I think Thomas Jefferson said it best “I found 101 ways not to make a light bulb” before he perfected his idea into a reality of today. If we want greatness in this game of trading this has to happen in our lives we need to incorporate this into our trading lives. Don’t get discouraged or upset when something doesn’t work out find the solution and learn from it for the next go around in the game.

Jeff, you are the coach and this is invaluable resource to making us stronger and better. I believe in this concept one hundred percent. Every great player has a coach making him into the superstar that is with inside him. Look at Tiger woods, Magic Johnson Michael Jordon and so forth each one practices the basics and listens to his coach. I use this concept in the workplace. Being in Real Estate and Mortgages in Southern California is very challenging and with out my coach pushing me and holding me accountable I wouldn’t be half as successful as I am today.

This is the same concept with trading; if we listen to you and follow your leading such as Tony Dungy does to his players we will achieve greatness in the game of trading. Of course we have the traders who stand out already like Bob who would be categorized as the Randy Moss type or Brett more like Peyton Manning type always connecting with his players. But if we as a Team listen to our coach and grasp the concepts we will become the superstar that is with inside us waiting to come out and be noticed. This is a great goal to strive for and achieve. I will leave with this thought how cool would it be that if we got this so down that CNBC and Bloomberg took notice and commented on our trading expertise as a group. That is something to strive for and think what your bank accounts will look like after we win the Game of trading and get handed the Super bowel trophy of trading…

Wow, Dale! Peyton Manning! I'll take it.

Jeff, I remember the BA trade now. It broke down, hit its target and zoom, launched right back up again. I remember it well. A little too late. Oh well.

"Way to go team getting back into the game! Making this a trading blog again I am amazed how things completely turned around!"

Lighten up, its the weekend.

Hey Dale,

I'm with you..... For those of us serious about trading/learning, it doesn't matter what day of the week it is.


Thanks for the encouragement. That was quite a post!


Thanks for the following trades:

WYNN - 35% profit
BCSI - 42% profit

I followed your advice and took my profits early rather than letting my winners run because of the current market volatility. I hated to do it but I didn't want to see my gains evaporate.

I am currently in MON at 52% profit.

Brett, Thanks for BPHX - I bought the stock - now at 25% profit.

Have a great week-end everyone!

I've had good luck with Google Finance for news on the stocks I'm trading. The information seems more timely and relevant than what I've seen on IT's "portfolio news". Anyone have differing experiences and/or other recommended resources?

This comment has been removed by the author.

I use pretty good but I'm still looking for the "best" site.

Dale, Lisa G.
Your right! The weekend is great to study, do searches, review watch lists. I trade with my real money. It's serious everyday.

Loretta ROCKS!!! Way to go! Nice prize, too.

Those of you using TOS... is it possible to put stop buys on an option... but only when the underlying stock hits a certain point? Am I making sense?

Sue, what trading platform are you using? and can you wait for the underlying to hit a certain point? or do you just have to kind of figure out where the option will be when your stock gets to the point you want to buy?


I use TOS and I LOVE IT,,,yes you can place all kinds of contingency orders with it. plus,,,I know how you can get an account even being a nieghor to the north,,email me and include your number and I'll tell you all about,,,and it is not illegal


Well I went and bought "Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets" based on Brett's almost religious statements on how it's helped not to mention it's on Jeff's reading list.

I find myself trading shorter and shorter time frames in this volatile market and need something that will help me refine shorter trading cycles. Hopefully this book is the ticket.

I also just signed up for ToS. The user interface is pretty imposing but I've been listening to the shadow trader and want to see what he's seeing. Plus I've noticed my trade execution speed slowing down on Schwab and it's cost me some money.


Almost all of these were on my watch list from mentions either on this blog or the marketcast. Thank-you.

I wanted to make one more comment about BCSI. I've routinely entered trades on support bounces but this was one I've watched and wanted but didn't trade cuz it just didn't hit my support lines.

Jeff called a bull flag on it at the last recommendation. It was way above support, broke the flag and I took the trade. It is turning out to be a beauty so far. I never would have traded it that way without having it discussed that way here. This has given me a new way to enter a trade I was missing previously. Thank-you.

Congrats, Loretta.
What a nice way to go into the weekend.

Next week should be exciting -- or not, depending on how the market reacts to the news (laughter.)


I have to say goodbye. I view Raimo's post as something that can happen to every relationship. When you bring up a point of contention, you damn well not cross that line again. Raimo, I understand your point but you should have considered the results of your posts. Now, EVERYONE will be retiscent to post anything that can be even remotely considered personal. Did you not think of that before you posted? Do you think that there are only men or only hunters on this blog? I know you have stated that you were put in your place after you started posting your hunting proclivities. Do you not think that Michelle may have the same passion for house hunting that you have for shooting creatures?? Michelle, I know you have come to terms with Raimo and the rest of the blog but Raimo was wrong to make you feel that way and to make it personal. That should have been done privately, if at all. Let's think where we are heading. If we all are hesitant to post anything personal on this site, don't you think that the traffic on this blog might go elsewhere??? Many of us have each other's personal emails. Don't you think that could happen?? I for one, am very upset about the direction we are all heading. Can we do without the Phantom Poet and the Angry Trader. Absolutely yes! Are we better off....Absolutely not!!! I have enjoyed every post of C2 even though half is trading and half is humor. Have you noticed C2 is not so entertaining in his last few posts?? The Poems between Raimo and the Phantom are a welcome interlude to the stress of trading and handling all the other stresses in our lives. I guarantee that Raimo will not respond to the Phantom ever again because it would be hipocritical to his latest rant. I saw Dale's post on Friday and his response to Anonymous about it being the weekend and to "lighten up". The fact that future posts supported the blog's views has helped me with the decision to leave this blog. I am sorry to do this because Jeff and the group has been so instrumental in my trading success but I can not follow a group that is led by just a few bloggers. I revere Jeff and his efforts and what we all have gone through to achieve the minimal or maximal success that we have achieved but my trust in the group has been minimized by the trivialization of the personal aspect. To all my JKB friends, I am sorry to leave and I will not leave my name because I do not want to have to deal with personal emails about my decision. Good luck to everyone and may you make trading your carreer and passion as well as your means to enjoy your families more.
A heartfelt thank you to Jeff for everything he has done for me as a trader!!



A) Friends work it out, they don't run and abandon
B) I will be hammering the Phantom Poet, guaranteed
C) Goodbye

And to all you OA's, there is nothing wrong with personal posts, my point was simply we were getting way TOO personal and the waidng through the perosonal posts was getting a bit outta hand.

Michelle is cool in my book, way cooler than yet another chicken like annoymouse.

Blog on....Trade on, and Phantom Poet, you know it's coming.

Now, off to hunting...


WOW,,,,leaving a blog that has helped you grow and learn???? I guess I am confused. I completely agree with Raimo on point A,,,friends work things out

that being said,,,love the way GRMN is setting up a potential beautiful entry,,,aka REE


I agree with sue and Raimo. To leave this blog because of Friday is like poking your eyes out because they're itchy.

Sue, email me at

Even if it's illegal, it could be fun.

Gotta get girls to work.

Wow what drama. There is not a dry eye on the Blog.

Can't we save all of this emotion until somebody that is a member of this blog turns pro, makes their next million, or the inconvenient reality, blows up their account. Then we can all pitch in with joy, sadness and the lot.

As my grandma always says, "For Fucks sakes, we are not saving lives here!"

That being said we have a big week ahead and we need to be vigilant in our trading!

Speaking of vigilant, I just had to come back for some additional ammunition, and and on that not I am watching CAB for a b/o.


Hey, let's keep it clean.



I kinda agree with Michelle, but I must admit I've dropped that F'bomb here once or twice....LOL..

C2...Whatever your doing that is illegal, I want in.

To everyone that has filled my e-mail box....thank you for all your kindness and support...Next week I am working on something to give back to all of you..something to get all of our trading to the next level, which is why we are all here. And yeah, who knows, it may be hunting related..NOT!

It appears to me..

The BLOG is back on track!!!

Way to go OA's...

Hey, Bob, if you put a bearish trade in there, you could say you were bear hunting. And if you put a bullish one in there, that could be a rodeo theme.

Maybe I could get a discussion started about rodeo shows and nature programs and you and I could fight some, throw in some mud, and we could charge for it.
(Laughter.) Bob (and anyone who is not sure) I am poking fun at Bob, and I think he'll be okay with it.

Let's trade on and make some money.



I hope you came back to the blog to see what the reaction was to your good-bye. I agree with everyone that it is a drastic measure to leave - way over done. We WILL know who you are soon enough because you will be missed. Please reconsider.

Dale, Very well said.


I looked up MUD, BULL, and BEAR and none of them are valid symbols. Are you playing calls or puts on them? You know that mentioning mud wrestling to Raimo is like throwing a red cape in front of a... ahem... bull.

Arty, I want to meet your Grandmother.


I sent you an email



I think you are blowing this out of porportion, don't you? And by the way, are you sure you are leaving the blog? Maybe you meant you are not posting anymore. Or are you actually LEAVING? (I love I.P. address trackers. It takes the anonymity out of "anonymous.")


Where have you been? Tell grandma "hello."

I've written 3 posts and posted none of them yet, but here's what i want to say, in a nutshell:

you'll never be a successful trader unless you have thick skin and are willing to fight through every single piece of adversity thrown your way. not everyone has it. it's unfortunate to lose people, but it's inevitable. the people who will make it here long term are the people who are dead serious about being traders. so if someone's comments force you off this blog, then you know you're just not cut out for this business. i will always miss the people who fail and are forced to do something else, but i think the only positive byproduct is that we have a stronger blog for those that become successful traders and really want to push the limits of our continuing education.

now just a comment about recent 'personal attacks':

i know raimo personally and have worked with him professionally. He's a talented trader. Also, he spends a great deal of his time answering questions from bloggers privately and on the blog (as I do). So it should be clear to anyone who's tried to work with Ramio that he cares about his fellow bloggers. He also knows what it takes to make it in this business.

I think that unfortunately some people come here totally unprepared for what is required to participate in the kind of environment Jeff has created, and that's disrespectful to everyone here who has or is currently paying their dues. Perhaps that's where some of the frustration comes from from the long-time bloggers. To advance our skillsets beyond your generic three-green-arrow system, everyone needs to elevate their games. Many here are doing just that, and it's truly amazing to see. I know a few people here who are going to make the same leap Raimo and I did. Those people got their basic education first and built off of that. This site is an extension of INVESTools, not a replacement for it.

In closing, I want to thank each of you for having the guts to begin this journey. There are many ways to be successful trading, and many styles to choose from. I urge each of you to understand that it's rare to have personal interaction with real-life professional traders, and you should really value what's here. If someone hurts your feelings, look past it. If someone offends you, look past it.

Because I'll tell you something right now: You can buy every book in the world, but you'll never learn how to trade without the guidance of a real trader. Unfortunately, you aren't going to get a whole lot of that guidance from INVESTools. And if you piss off Raimo or Jeff (God forbid) to the point that they say goodbye because of all the drama or lack of fire on the blog, then one valuable avenue is closed off for good.

So again, I don't mean to be harsh, but I know what I speak. Let's cut the drama. Let's focus on trading. Let's all come prepared, and let's push the bounds of what we're all learning right now. Let's keep our posting efficient and valuable. Let's give Jeff the incentive to continually teach more advanced topics and provide a forum that interests some of the advanced traders. That benefits everyone.

Sound good?

Brett - sounds good! Not enough time in the day for the other BS. Thanks to all that help us out here, Jeff you are the best (but you already know that)


It's nice to see your humor back.

Is your grandma in the Navy? (laughter.)

Thanks for your wise words and advice. Trading isn't for everyone. It's tough.

Raimo and I butt heads because we have strong personalities, we don't back down, and we have different viewpoints on things. But we both LOVE trading and are not gonna quit no matter what.
I hope you see that (just like a family) we will have times where all don't agree, but we work it out and move on. Sorry we offended you with our comments.

Thanks for the blog and putting up with us.


I hope they keep track or you get credit for those of us who have to attend your classes via the taped version.


I see we have all re-bonded and re-focused. The tension on the blog was palpable and I posted specifically to get the wagons circling around the blog. Knowing that we all like to welcome new people to the blog and hate losing anyone (for example when Michelle was going to leave at one point)I had counted on the response from you all that was given. We are all interacting professionally AND personally again. Personal comments are no longer taboo but we are now sensitive to the reason we are all here and that is to learn and trade successfully. Raimo and Michelle are joking with each other, C2 is humerous again and Raimo has promised to answer the Phantom. We have all referred to this site as a community and if you take away the personal side, all you have left is a blog.
Jeff, If you want, and can, by all means track my IP address. You may not agree with my means but I am happy with the result.
Arty, we need more Grandma quotes.
Brett, good post and message understood.
Bring on Monday, I am ready.


No longer Disappointed.

Jeffs sandbox is a cool place to play. Some players are pros, some are just plain old new. And every once in a while me or someone else is gonna throw some sand in your face, or vice versa. Maybe on purpose, maybe not, but most certainly not with mean intent.

The choice to stay and play is entirely up to you.

Me, I love Jeff's box and will be playing here for a long time.

Brett...thanks for the words, get your crystal ball out, mine is all shined up, Monday 9:30 awaits us..and more importantly, Tuesday..


But if we needed more drama, I would have kept the reality tv conversations flowing.

Jeff has a box?


You really do connect with the players of the blog. I agree 110 percent. Do you really know how good you have it? I wasn't taught this when I worked at a Broker dealership this stuff is like gold and priceless... The irony is, why stay anonymous anyways it is not like anyone is going to come looking for you. That is a very childish attitude and I just look past it anyways.

I know that we should be very thankful to all the high end traders.
Jeff my hat goes off to all you do.
Bob I see how much you care about others.
Brett you really connect and send the message home.

So with that said let's all act like adults get out of the sand box and make this trading blog stand out and shine and grow as traders. I want to tell others broker friends of mind about this place and some of my friends that own BD's but the drama have got to end. Again maybe we need a sub blog so those that want to vent that way can play in the sandbox all day and waste time.

But for those who want to achieve greatness don't stand in the way of that or you will be trampled!

I am out of here going for a run on the beach.

I am hoping that this changes quickly because rough seas are a head of us in trading and we need our Captain leading the way. Jeff takes the wheel! Copilot's Bob Brett and others that have that control bring it on!! Lets move and excel into what I call extreme trading expand your minds and grow and prosper


Sounds like an awesome plan. Great post. Although I am thankful for my Investools education, I am even more thankful for what I have learned specifically from Jeff and this blog over the past year. You are right, there is nothing better than learning from a professional trader--especially one that is willing to go the extra mile for us, as Jeff continues to do.

Jeff--cannot thank you enough!

I agree that we may have some rough waters ahead. We need to band together and figure out how to navigate and make some money next week. Pleeeeeease, let's move on and focus on Monday and Tuesday. Let's check our stops, diversify and have some bearish entries ready if the market heads down and some bullish ones ready if it bounces and zooms up. Let's make some money. That's ultimately why we are all here. I for one have real cash on the line and want to see it grow.


I made a promise, and I ALWAYS keep my word.

Earlier this summer we were talking about rules, and some of you were asking for me to share some of mine. I shared one of them, one that I learned from Jeff of getting into my trades at my exits, and coined the term REE, which is one of my trading rules. I then tried to hammer this point, this strategy, and it seemed to have helped many of you.

Today, I give you another one of my trading rules, RTR...

What does it mean, what is it's concept? You tell me...

Brett....i could not agree with you more, you hit the nail on the the drama for your mama !!!
i am here to learn to trade as a professional, i appreaciate all the time put into this blog and hope it continues to be a place to come and learn....and connect with like minded people.....

Ok, I'll bite.

RTR = Raimo Trading Rules, Raimo True range, Ready the rafts-my acount is sinking, Really Tuff Read-I don't know where the stock is headed, Rarely Trade Reits, Rarely Think...Rarely, I give up.

Ready the rafts my account is sinking..Sean, now that is some funny shit...

Raimo--I'm going to say Risk to Reward? Is the amount you are risking worth the potential reward, given the price target?

Risk to reward sounds like a good one. Raimo Trading Rules doesn't seem to fit, since that's the definition. Is Lisa right (before I venture a guess)?


Reason To Re-enter?


One other thing. I like playing in Jeff's sandbox too but if the cats keep trying to bury me, is that a bad sign??

Oh, Sean already mentioned Raimo Trading Rules.

Sean, Cats?? Oh, I get it, cats use sandboxes for litter boxes sometimes. Okay. You lost me on that one.

VMI, with the candle chart it looks like horizontal support, with the line, vertical. Is that what you guys see?



Yes it is a bad sign, but one that you can remedy. Hand with the big dogs buddy. We eat cats for breakfast.


Raimo's _________ _________

Hint: this focuses me on another huge issue, one we all deal with and NEED to master..and we easily forget what to do when we are at, RTR


Thanks for taking the time to write as you did-I,too, value the opportunity to learn from professionals. I have been with Investools for 1 1/2 yrs. I wish I had discovered the blog earlier, for Jeff has taught me so much. Just his archives are priceless, not to mention his daily postings. I look forward to the day when I will be able to make contributions that will be as helpful to all of you as yours have been to me. But in the meantime, thanks to everyone for all your input.

On 8-29, on Master Talk, Jeff suggested ( while the market is so volatile ) to focus on ETF's. He said that they are low risk, diversified, have less implied volatility, are more liquid and have higher Open Interest. Two of the ones he mentioned are BBH ( biotech) and IGM ( tech, computer ). Both are in short-term uptrends and appear to be bouncing off diagonal support. Would you guys consider these to be at REE?
Appreciate your input.

These are a few more ETF's that may be ready to bounce up off diagonal support for a call...IYW, IYZ, PHO, SLV, and SLX.

XLU may be ready to bounce down from diagonal Resistance for a put.

What say you guys?

Hmmm....Raimo hinted, "..another huge issue, one we all deal with and NEED to master..". Might it be:
Raimo's Temper Rule?

But seriously, back to trading, is anybody thinking of strangling something for Tuesday's Big Deal? I'm trying to construct a trade that makes sense from a R/R basis but not sure if this is something that should be entered tomorrow morning or 10 minutes before 2 PM on Tuesday. Or not at all.

Anybody doing this?

BBH seems to be at the top of its channel and (possibly) heading down. Also, not enough volume for me. IGM, ditto.

Thanks DG. How much volume do you look for? A certain amount above it's average volume or a set number? Or above 150%?


Where are you drawing the top of a channel for BBH? Thanks.

I just got done reading Jeff's archived post, Average True Range, and I have a question.

I put the study on the CRM chart just to see how it would work. It gives me the daily range but how do I find the ATR? Do I average the prices together to find the maximum movement or does it do it for me?

I think this might be a good thing for me to help me find my targets which I am admittedly horrible at finding. I can see the price pattern targets but on a stock like HANS I had my target as the previous high of about $48.65. Now that it has hit and surpassed my target, I am left wondering what to do next. I have been looking for signs of weakness but am still in a quandry. I know that I should have known what to do before I took the trade but...
like I said, I am bad at this.

Asking questions like this makes me feel more ignorant than usual so please don't scold me for not knowing before getting into the trade. I could really use some input. Thanks.

One other thought on volume...I understood that Sept is historically a slow month and average volume may be considered acceptable. Has anyone else heard this?

The top of Jan. 22nd candle, the top in early May and last weeks top.

Thanks, DG. I had that line as an intermediate-term Resistance but wasn't seeing it as a channel. Thanks for the input.

We have all been there. And I still do that sometimes. Have you thought of taking some profits off the table and re-drawing some lines and figuring out what your "new" target would be as if it is a new trade? If you have one contract (like I often do) I know that may not work. I think it also depends if you are a short-term trader, or long-term trader.
Are you trading stock, options?
Those questions will helpfully hope you decide to where to go from here.


P.S. There is nothing wrong with calling a trade done and taking profits, especially in this market.


Hint was strictly trade related, not blog related....common issue for traders....and an important one...

Hi Laney,

I'm not sure that I have the answer for you but here are a few thoughts.

When I am not sure of a target, I look at the 1 yr chart and write down each time the price goes above the 30 day MA. I look at where it leaves the MA to where it stops at the high. Then I average them together to get an average target above the current MA (I learned this from Investools).

For the ATR, on the IV site, ATR is one of the study sets. The ATR for your stock is 1.74. I am also learning to use ATR's. I think that you can place your stop 1.74 below your current price for your stop or you can double this. Perhaps someone else can share more info on this. Hope this was a tiny bit of help.

Sorry about the poor sentence structure. Hopefully help you decide where to go is what I meant.
Also, that could be a cup and handle forming. Just my take.

Good night, all.



It is my understanding that the ATR measures volatility--how much a stock has been moving, on average, over a certain period of time. I have heard of people using the ATR for help in setting stop losses (so they don't set them too tight for stocks that have been more volatile intraday), but I haven't heard of anybody using them to identify price targets for taking profits. I think there are some people here that use ATR (can't remember who) that may be able to shed additional insight.

Does it have to do with money management or specifics of a trade like entry and exit or support lines?



Correction on the ATR...looks like it is 1.93.

Thanks everyone.

Michelle, There was just a small discussion about this (drawing all new lines). Thanks for the reminder.

Judy, That's a good idea about the moving averages because I do use them as indicators.


ATR is average true range,,it measure the stocks range for whatever time period you are looking at,,ie,,,on a daily chart it gives you the average true range based on the daily movement,,,it does not measure implied volatility,,,you can find this under the option control section on the left hand side,,on TOS prophet charts
I use the implied volatility for projecting price movement of the options.
Sorry if this is clear as mud,,,I can show you an easy way of doing that if you have more questions,,email me.



I might not have been clear enough in my post. I didn't say it measures "implied volatility". I indicated that it measures volatility--meaning it measures how much a stock fluctuates over a certain period of time. Basically something that can be used to help identify where to set stops so that you are not stopped out too soon due to intraday price movements. Does that make sense?

sorry that last post should have been for Laney,,,but the offer still stands,,email me if you have questions on price targets for options based on time,price and volatility,,,I can show you a really easy way of figuring this out,,that has worked really well for me


perfect sense LisaG,,I must have read it wrong,,sorry



No problem! Just want to make sure I'm not confusing anybody....


I'm still thinking....

Since your last rule was for entry, this must be for a target. Raimo's target rule? If not, I give up already.

You have intrigued me with your easy way to determine price target. I think that was what you were saying. I don't have your email address but mine is . Or you could share it with all of us here.


I would love to share it with the group,,,but I have to talk you thru setting it up on TOS,,,I am proud to say I shared this with Raimo on Friday and I believe his words were,,,holy shit! I have shared it with a couple others and there response was pretty much the same.



Hi Don and Deborah from Greer SC.... I live in Foutain Inn, SC. Glad to see a neighbor on the Blog. I would love to get in with a local group. If you like,please email me at



Can this be done on other than TOS? or do can it be set up what is available to IT users?



It is on TOS, desktop software


Okay Sue-
Now I'm intrigued! Please share!



Thanks. I'll have to figure out something else, because I'm stuck with Ameritrade. But, I do appreciate your knowledge.


Have a good night. See you tomorrow.


Just got to read the blog since Friday. Great Drama. I would just take the view that the blog is like or becoming like "Yahoo Finance" You can't sensor or tell people what to blog, you can certainly rate the blogger your self and pass on if you don't agree.
I understand and agree with Raimo's viewpoint. He is just making a suggestion to make the Blog more efficient, but rules are un enforceable in an open forum such as this one.
Jeff can sensor anyone's post if they are offensive, but then again he probably has better things to do.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for participating and sharing ideas, personal matters etc. I think that we all have the same goal here, to learn and make money. Hearing about peoples life events makes the blog more personable.

Thank you again Jeff, for sharing and teaching we can't thank you enough for what you do.

Thank you bloggers for participating and sharing ideas.


email me a time to call you tomorrow


Let's see if my luck still holds this week. How about Right TO Resistance?
As in how you manage a trade that is now at resistance? Or.. Reality TV Raimo style.


Thanks so much. I'm leaving my husband in charge tomorrow but Tuesday would be cool. I'll email you on Tuesday.

Again. Thanks so much!


On second thought it's got to have Raimo in it LOL. How about Raimo's Target Reward?


Why the cloak-and-dagger secrecy? If you have something really useful for figuring price targets and think it'll help out everyone here, then share it! That's what this blog is all about, right?

Cloak and dagger? I think not. This RTR is not something new, just something we all struggle with. My rules help me take away that struggle, and if I choose to make you all think hard first, perhaps you'll be a better trader for it. Or, I could just give you all my trades, and tell you when to get in and out...NOT...

DG and Loretta nailed it, good job. I don't have any DVD sets to send you, well, other than hunting ones bought off the outdoor channel!

I always take my trades at REE, but before I do, I always have a target price, one that I act on....

RTR..Raimo's target reached...and when my trade hits my price target, it is actionalbe at this point, meaning I am REQUUIRED to take profits, and at least 50% of them.

Letting winners run is one thing, but leaving profits, all of them, exposed, is another.

My style of trading, utilizing both REE and RTR, gets me in at a good price, but forces me to take profits at RTR. My philosophy is simple...if my target is hit, then my profits may no longer be at a support level. So instead of leaving them at risk for a pullback, and maybe not having enough time left on my option to make another equal of higher high, RTR forces me, as per its rule, to take $$ off teh table, and re-invest them in a new low risk entry point. The remaining contracts I will let run, as a winner, and are watched for signs of weakness.

For me, RTR helps take away that decision as to, when do I exit? I know that before I get in at REE..

Not a new concept, but by uisng my own acronyms, it has hammered into my thick skull that I MUST take profits..that was why I took the trade in the first place, now it is payday.

REE, get in, RTR, get out. Thre is ALWAYS another trade to put your profits into at a lower risk, REE...

It is my circle of life now...

REE to RTR back to REE to RTR...

Hakuna Matata.......


I spoke to Sue last night about it. It's not that she is trying to be secretive, she just thought it was easier to walk somebody through what she was talking about while you are actually logged on to the TOS desktop and looking at it. She explained how she was using some of the system functionality, along with her thought process. Sometimes it makes more sense to talk somebody through something than trying to put it down in writing.

Matt, sorry buddy, I obviously did not swallow enough coffee beans this morning, I thought your cloak and dagger reference was for RTR......let me go kick myself in the a$$......


Thanks for sharing. As you said, not a new concept and one that Jeff has always hammered home, but one that I know I still screw up. I did it not that long ago on BRY--one of Jeff's picks. Had a good profit on it (somewhere in the lower 30's) and didn't take it when it hit that target. Somebody asked the question about it either on the blog or on marketcast and Jeff's response was "why are you still in this trade when the target was $32?" (or whatever it was at the time). Sure enough I was still in it... It had hit the target and started to bounce back up. I closed the trade for a profit, but gave back a good bit of money.....

That was great, really great. I get it...on paper. How do you reconcile your emotions and just get out with what you have? Perhaps it's discipline that I lack or maybe I am really greedy, even though I think that I am not. :-)

Getting out is the hardest part for me, bar none. Any kick in the pants advice for that?

I think that you hit on another key point, getting out of half of the trade. Many times I only trade one contract so it's all or nothing and I let it ride thinking that I will make more because I am unsure of my original target, hence my post last night.

I probably just talked in a huge circle but beileve it or not, I feel like I learned something.

Sue, I will e-mail you later. I am out the door to go to my "other job" and teach Body Pump.


If Raimo had that strong of a reaction I'd love to get a primer (sp?) on what you're doing in TOS for stops. I've got my spoon ready to be hand fed.... ;-}

Thanks, Kim


I've done the Body Pump class and can't walk or lift my arms for 2 days after it. Talk about an a$$ kicker, wow!

As far as Raimo's target points I keep my trade drawn out on Prophet chart. I draw red lines for where my stops are and green lines for my profit target. By doing this I have an immediate visual always on my chart as soon as I pull it up instead of trying to remember what I was looking to do with each trade.

My question is this. Who is taking profits prior to where the technical analysis is telling you because of recent market volatility? It sounds like people are taking smaller gains rather than letting their profit targets be reached for fear of the market pulling back. I'm till trying to let the technical analysis play out but to my account bottom line's detriment.



I don't intend to be secretive about what I'm doing,,it is just something that I have to walk you thru,,,maybe if I was a better writer I could put it out there,,,but I am not.I am more than whiling to share it with anyone, because it truely is very helpful.


Get ready for the GRMN sneak attack. I think it likes to strike while the market's down.

BIDU is on fire this morning.

Excellent, Raimo.
Plus you answered Laney's question two birds with one stone. Oh, did I just make a hunting reference (laughter.)

SLB looks like right at diaganol support REE for those entering trades. I know a lot are waiting for the dust to settle, but.....
Follow your rules.

Raimo Rules - I am going to print that out and use it til it becomes natural. I think we ought to start a segment Raimo Rules and each week focus on one rule. This is great.


For those not sure about AAPL, I think it is gonna surprise all by the end of the year. My money is still on it.


Have a look at TRMB looks poised to a re test old highs?

Not in a trade on this ticker, but on my watchlist. CME break below 540 (lower highs, lower lows) Possible put play? I am gonna watch it, because don't know if I am really ready to enter a big mover with the Fed stuff coming up, but thought I'd put it on the radar or open it up for discussion.


For anyone looking for a bearish trade, check out MA, it is at REE, I am doing a bear call spread on it at 140.

I appreciate you sharing your RTR. Your REE has helped me alot. I can see how adding the part about the level of support in your RTR will be just as helpful. Thanks!


I am excited to hear about your target process on TOS. I will email you within a few days to find out what time would be good for me to call you and have you walk me through it. I'm under the weather right now so am a bit fuzzy-brained.


For those of you who missed the VRTX trade, it's retesting a nice trendline here today en route to its $44 target. For conservative investors, you might want to wait for a bounce. For aggressive investors, it's right at perceived support.

Will put that on my watchlist, Brett. Guess I'm more conservative. Looks like a good trade.


Thank you for the VMC trade...You suggested it, I made it my own.

My homework for today is to go through each one of my trades and determine specific exit and profit taking.
Question: I have a 401(k) and a small account. Sometimes I will take a position in each. If you have one contract in a 401(k) and one contract in the other contract, you meet the target, would you just close out one contract and let the other one ride after you re-evaluate support and such? Trying to understand this rule better and make it my own after your explanation.


AAP from jeff's video is at a low risk entry right now. It looks like it wants to roll over and die.


great post,,,that is what will make you a success


is DRYS looking like a REE, it is retesting the breakout point and might bounce in a day or 2

Do you guys agree?

Is anyone trading GLDN. You might just say it is not optionable the market maker does not want to trade. It looks good here, low risk but the spreads are crazy. I even went 10c below the ask and he did not fill me.

I am sure he would murder you if you need to get out also.


DRYS -- I want it close to 65 before I take it.

Amy, I had VMC too. Just sold it for 37% gain in a few days. Yes, I am definitely taking my profits more quickly. I only had one contract so no ability to let things run. I had 82.50 as my target (prior low). I think it might run down further today which makes it hard to exit but the RTR discussion moved me in favor of taking profits. Don't let me influence you, just sharing what I did. Would like to hear your strategy on exiting.

It does stink with one contract, but in this market climate, I think we have to act quickly, especially with tomorrow's announcement on the horizon. VMC conveniently hit my target before the announcement so I'll take it.


GLDN - if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then....I'd find an easier way to make some money.

VMI - Michelle mentioned this one on Sunday night and it looks like it's making its bounce today. I'm waiting until the end of the day, though.



Yes, I am in GLDN the stock. I didn't like the spreads either and I have learned to avoid them. It is already difficult enough to watch a .20 spread move to a .50 after I have gotten into some trades so I am being real picky about which options I buy these days.

VMC - I took this trade at the end of the day on Friday, my target is $77 in 14 days. However, with the announcement tomorrow I'm thinking of taking this large move and running with 50% profit in a few hours. I only have one contract.

Tapping fingers, tapping fingers.


Mahmood, (or anyone) I'm in a bc spread on MA which is expiring this week. I'm just a little profitable on that as of this moment because the added volatility is messing with the prices of the options. My concern is how will this stock react to a fed cut tomorrow? I'm thinking of closing it out before the announcement. MA is an interest rate sensitive stock, isn't it? Is it affected by fed fund rates? Is that already priced in?

Kim- on your VMC trade, why not let your winner run downhill with a trailing stop loss? That's what I'm doing with it. I own October 90 puts currently up 45% in 11 days.



Now this is a tough one, at first..

But...if you draw a diag trendline up from the 6 month chart, from the low in march, hit the lows in june, then th elows in august, that is a clear diag support line, and we are nearly $5 away from that. Also, DRYS had a nice breakout on 8/22...for about a 15 point move, which it made. Now, on 9/5 DRYS did have a nice move on volume, but the question is, if you got in today, is your exit based on maybe support at 68.50ish, or really at teh diag trendline, at about 65ish?

For me, and my style, my exit is that diag trendline, which would get me out at about 65ish, so for me, REE is that exit price, as close to it as I can get, at about $65...

I will be waiting here...68.50 not as clear a support area or defined as my diag line. And if I miss this trade, oh well. there are others.

That is my two cents if it helps..

MIA Blogger Found!!!
Wow, I do not know what to think after trying to read through the blog traffic since Tuesday. Yes, that is when I began my computer difficulties. Thanks for the MIA tag Chris I am now wearing it proudly. The pink paper goes perfectly with my orange shirt.

What did you all do while I was gone? Drama is an under statement! No I am not going there. While I was out a new term as created - RTR, thanks Raimo. I never did get that alpha link to work so am still in the dark on that. Could anyone help please.

Jeff, even though I am way behind and my business is on hold as I read through blog comments I stopped to read every wonderfully boxed comment you made (great idea Tim). Your increased participation was great! I am not the trader I will be or want to be and have not gotten it yet as I still have much to learn. Your education, giving and this blog have helped more that you will ever know. Someday soon when I have brought my account back up I will then have some prove to show of what you have done here in a pesonal way for Pam and I - thanks.

I am out a bunch this week again but hope to catch up at night.

Kim, i'm in the same boat with VMC.

i don't want that fed announcement to take away these profits.
I guess i'm thinking too much. I got into this trade on Friday knowing that there was an announcement and I still took it. But there is some support at the $80 "area" /level.


Hi Stan-

I've had this battle going on between my technical analysis and the current market conditions along with Jeff and Eric's advice to take profits quicker. I don't think I've been nimble enough in this current market climate.

I just sold for a 50% profit in 2 1/2 hours when it was down $3.60. I figure I can always buy back in after the fed announcement.

VAR - also bought this at the end of the day on Friday. Did my own analysis of Jeff's reco. Thanks Jeff!



Your detailed explanation of the DRYS trade was great. I drew the lines you outlined and see the REE. But perhaps more importantly was your comment about being willing to wait and let the trade go if it didn't hit the REE. I have noticed before how I let the emotion of not wanting to miss out get me into trades that were not at the best entries. Seeing how you handled it on a trade that is happening now helps.


You're welcome, Kim. But my name's Brett, not Jeff.

Anyone else looking at ADSK as a good entry on a retest of a symmetrical triangle breadout?


I am intrested in what you are using on TOS.. Give me your email and please and thaks for the help.


I like the REE and RTR good way to make it simple I have the habit of letting the trades run to long and give back more profits than I need. Something to work on today.


Thanks for the heads up onthe trade will check this out in more detail.

I am here just on the phone prospecting for new Clients to buy homes and looking for sellers.. Fun stuff..

We have Clean Cups!!!!!!

Great explanation on the DRYS trade. I see what you are saying. Some time I have a tendancy to dray line like I want to see them instead of what they are. I see the REE at 65 like you stated.

I will keep an eye on this and the correct entry.



it could be that you have Log turned on in one char and not in the other. I had log turned off and could not see the support shown by Raimo but once I turned log on I could see the diagonal support

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  • I'm Option Addict
  • From Saratoga Springs, Utah, United States
  • I am a professional trader and an instructor for Investools. I've had relations with the markets for 9 years. Born in Concord, CA, but reside in Saratoga Springs, Utah. Father of THREE, Husband of one.
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