Crash? What Crash?

PLEASE!!! My inbox just went nuts with e-mails comparing today's 2.5% drop in the Dow, to 1987's 22% drop in the Dow. Are you kidding me?!

Gang, the Dow would need to drop 2,600 points to be in the same ball park.

Comparison Denied.

Recommendation: If you want to see what it was like to trade through a "Crash" I can start to liquidate my account on Monday.

Long: My account. I want to keep it.

Short: Weak Comparisons

Disclaimer: Thank you to diversification, I left my trading station for the majority of the day.

And on that note, I am off to Hawaii for a week! See you all when I get back. Good luck with the market. I'll be sipping cocktails on the beach :)

My god...

is anyone fainting with me?


and I am off to drinking, I think raimo had to idea when he started blogging from the bar a few hours ago

long:forgetting today


I want to go to Hawaii!

No fainting, just diversification and plenty of beer and wine.

Have a good weekend Jeff. My accounti s lighter than it was this AM, but not too bad. I remember 1987 and that was ugly!

Gray Mac

I would not compare this to Black Monday which I remember all too well. But what I WOULD compare it to is the Friday before Black Monday which, iirc, the dow dropped about 100 points.
That is what is a little worrisome to me.
That, and the fact that the only reason the market stopped going down was because the bell rang.


Why is anyone fainting?

Do we lack diversification?

If there is anything we do here at Option Addict, it is that we diversify. Entries/Exits are total BS if you can't smile through days like today.

It is a core rule you need to follow if you are going to trade.

C'mon! I want you all to make money, not lose it!

You made comment today and a couple of weeks ago referring to the fact that your balanced portfolio give you peace of mind. You mentioned obviously puts, gold, etc.
How would you suggest someone with a smaller account diversify in order to breath easier on these types of days.
I am sitting here thinking that many peoples puts did not make up any where close to the losses of their calls. Should we be heavier in puts and play fewer % of calls. This would probably average a smaller overall return...but.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.



I did pretty good today. No complaints really.

I even held back from saying any f@#king explicatives.....

Dont forget everyone about the bloggers voting even though we had a bad day today... If you had a bad day today...

Jeff needs support so today is the last day. Lets go for a bull run on votes and get Jeff in the number one spot. The OA awards in Vegas should be for Jeff in the number one spot. I expect everyone to vote regardless of the rules.. we dont know what they are, so keep voting. If there are rules, they will be applied accordingly. But the other blogging sites will be voting heavily today as well. Keep voting! Don't stop!!!!

As for monday, hopefully we will celebrate Jeff in first place, and the market heading higher. Or lower. But who cares, we are diversified.

have a great weekend!!!

I want to thank you for the best week I've ever had since starting to trade over a year ago. Even though I gave back some today, once I got stopped out of some calls my puts kicked in and tempered those losses.

So yeah, diversification is Key.


Do you short today?
Just curious..


OK .. so the dust settles and we have a weekend to study charts and figure out what the CHART says ..

This is the first time in my history as a stock/options trader that on a major down turn day.. I made money (3.5% up) Thanks to Jeff for his consistent and patient teaching and Brett for his consistent blogging and advice and for Raimo - for his always caring - never give up attitude. The dude leaves his account and blogs from the bar and Jeff calls it a day early on a Friday.. We can learn from these guys ..

Good restful weekend everyone .. and Brett .. I would enjoy seeing your perspective from a chart standpoint as we move into next week...

Thanks again to all .. GREAT blogging this week ... This community has sure grown and may this blog slam dunk a big win tonight!

See, that's what I don't understand. I was diversified and yet my puts were not working for me, they were working against me.

I feel like an ass. And I want to puke.

The winning trades that I have been in were just pure luck, being in the right place at the right time. My dad asked me how I knew to take NTRI and BIIB and I told him that I got them from this blog. I didn't find them, I didn't research them. I don't know what the heck I am doing.

I lost over $1200 today. I realize that that is small potatoes to the majority of you but to me, it's huge. And now I sound like a whiner and I hate whiners.

I'm sorry, I know that many of you took hits today, too.

Check your gmail email. Just sent you something. I hear you....

Good News. I hear Fedx and UPS are merging. They're going to call it Fed Up! Joke for the day, besides the market that is. Chin up OA's. I think most of you are following your rules, like it or not, and Monday is another trading opportunity day. Thanks for all your help and positive attitudes.


Here's my take on your position. Join the club. I would bet the average account size for this blog is around $20,000.

I lost $575 today. OIH accounted for $400. I started the day with 5 positions. I'm out of all but one. I was not diversified because I couldn't find puts the last couple of days that were not "too extended past REE", or so I thought at the time.

I guess the way I am going to look at today is. I've been on this blog for a year now. I'm not great at this yet. I haven't made any great money and I haven't lost big money.

I'm still in the game. Playing with real money, no paper money, and I can fight another day.....all be it very cautiously in this market.

I suggest you trade single options and set your stops tight. Don't hope for your loosers. Take compelling trades don't feel compelled to trade.

Good luck.


You don't short on a day like today, you short for upcoming days like today.

Another comment was made about someone having puts that went up today. If it wasn't individual news that kept the stock up, my guess is that it was a timing issue. Are you applying the same timing principles to your puts as you are your calls?

And if I didn't already say it,


If you are in all calls, with most of your account, you had to imagine that the market would go down at some point, right? Hell, I told you it was going down this week all the way back on Monday. Plan for every action that your trade/market will make and plan your re-action in advance. That takes the guess work out of trading.

Many of us with smaller accounts are with you. I gave back most of what I have gained in the past couple of weeks. My puts moved a little and my calls moved down a lot. This is the third day I have taken a beating since I started. My down day percents are coming down. I know I will get trading.

Did you trade your plan? If your answer is yes you are successful. When we evaluate how our plan did we can learn and adjust for the future. For me, I did trade my plan. My plan was flawed so I need to learn from that.

I learned my plan for diversification needs some work. Monday through Thursday my plan was working. I added during the week too many calls to the puts I have in play. I got careless. I saw Brett’s warning and how he was hedging his portfolio. I did not take the time to study and learn his strategy or any other that may have protected more against today. What can I do next time? What can I do to make money next week?

My losses today are a cost of my education.

Thanks to all for all of your help.


Yes, I need a kick!!!

thank you..

I really need to re-visit my plan!!

thank YOU



The puts not keeping up with the falling calls is a problem I have had in the past and had earlier in the trading day today.

A couple of reasons I can think this is so on sell off days are:
• High flyers tend to sell off faster than the down trending ones because all the lunatics panic feel then need to take their winners off the table because they want to lock profits. There are more profits to lose from the high fliers (winners) than down trending stocks. That is opposite to the way we should think. We should sell our losers first keeping in line with Jeff’s quote from Mastertalk on Wednesday, “Do more of what is working and less of what is not.”
• Next, the case for me today was that most of my calls were either ATM or deep ITM and those are very sensitive to the price action of the stock whereas my puts were either OTM or ATM with very few being ITM. It is a delta thing… As the day grew long for me and I eliminated the bleeding in some profitable calls, my account started to gain value.

All in all today wasn’t that bad for me, minus -3%. It just sucks to see great trades turn sour. Once some things shake out, it the game will feel natural again and it will be business as usual.

This is the game we play and we are playing it well. We just need to be ready for these days and expect them every now and then.

Have a good weekend and we will be back at it on Monday!

Somehow my last post did not come through and I can't remember what I said. Was really important I guess. Laney I hear you! I have/had five calls, 5 stock plays like GLD and other long term trades and four puts with more contracts that the calls. TOS shows me with a negative (bearish) leaning. I add more puts and some stock this week as things were going so well and found good REE. Even with all this still down back to levels of two weeks ago.

I was trades very small and very few positions like 3-4 and it was not working so Jeff suggested that I may not be diversified enough. I reviewed and agreed so that is why I increased the number of positions. While loosing two weeks of gains will not kill us I am so tired of this I have to learn how to balance better.

Benton care to give some education to a fellow long time blogger? Would be glad to learn what you did and how you balanced your account. You are up about what I am down (3%).


No, I shorted nothing today. When the market is up, I look to short. When the market is down, I look for calls. I trade the trend of the stock...adn on both calls and puts, I use REE to get in.

This being said...I don't care all that much what the market does. I care what my individual stocks do. Yes, days like today do inlfuence everything, but in the bigger picture, my trades, support and resistance, volume...that to me is what matters, and that is what I trade off of.

The hardest thing for me, as I too am still learning, (maybe Jeff can offer advice here),is how much wiggle room you give your trendlines on these 300pt moves....

This has been one of my challenges...but being diversified helps gets you through...

One thing that might help people diversify in balancing is what the TOS folks call "Delta Nutral". When you're looking to balance calls with puts, pay attention to the overall delta of your account. If your total delta on the account is a high positive number, you are not diversified enough. An OTM put is not going to react the same as an ITM call. I noticed yesterday that my IRA account was +600 delta and I couldn't find a put play that looked like a good entry (hah!) so I nabbed some IWM puts to balance things out a bit. I didn't get enough apparently but it did cut my losses by 2/3 in that account.

I'm just learning too but this has helped me curb some losses, I think.


Voted for your blog hope you win for all you do for us it is a great honor to be able to vote for you.

I have been very busy these last few weeks with real estate short sales and REO's. I hope everyone was diversified yeah we take some hits but it makes a stronger trader so be it. Account was up huge yesterday account is still up but gave back a lot it is only a paper loss big deal! Shrug it off move forward reset and look for for some good deals in the market.

Keep in mind we could be in for more of a correction over the next few days. Postion Size!!! Diversify!! Have a great weekend everyone!!

Well, I think I lost about the same today as I did on Feb. 27th. A couple of differences though. My account is larger now, so percentage wise I did better today. I closed my winners as they fell through stops. I had more Puts then I did in Feb..

Most of all I had a plan this time. Today still sucked.

I really wanted to buy some calls on the DIA to catch a dead cat bounce on Monday morning. Watched the price action from 3:50 - 4:00 looking for a reason to get in. Never got any incling that we will go up on Monday. My account ended the day Delta Neutral. I am hoping that I will be ok.

Did I say hoping I meant to say.....

Anyone want to give me their read on CROX?

Still in CROX, FLS, GME, JOYG for CALLS.


Thanks Raimo for replying.

how long have you been trading?
are you an investool student? a PHD student? are you trading full-time, or you still have a job?

sorry to ask so many questions...

Yes, the OA has been talking about your REE so much. It seems that you have been trading for a while.

I need to work on my REE....



Yes, an invest tools student, 2 1/2 years now full time trading. Yes, i have a job. I am an option addict.

REE works...make it yours. RTR works too. If there is one thing (there are MANY THINGS) I have learned from Jeff...RULES RULES RULES, DIVERSIFY ......and money mgt (RPRA..Raimo portfolio risk analysis) on every trade...these three things REE, RTR and RPRA are my 3 key elements for trading. They are my rules.

Thanks Jeff for teaching me....I am indebted to you..

DG, Brian, Anne, Logan and Bob(and Pam)

Thank-you all for the very kind and helpful words. I needed a little while to re-group and I have decided that I need to pull my head out of my butt and forget about today.

Anne asked me if I traded my plan and the truth is, I did not. I have no one to blame but myself. I thought that I was diversified enough but in re-evaluating what my positions were, I really wasn't diversified.

Logan, what you said was true, I have to look more closely at the delta and stop shooting from the hip with my trades.

Thank-you all.

I second Raimo's question, I got into positions close to my lines today and then exited again the same day as they broke below, well Got out of the ones I could :rolleyes: thanks ameritrade.

I think in my trades though most of them were significant, DRYS my line was at 120, it closed at 115, ACH closed below 80 at 78, all of these were significant enough to exit, possibly besides SLB but still seems like a lot of over reaction.

Jeff, when you do hedging, like say I bought puts on the S&P, do you buy 2% worth of your portfolio and assume you could lose that all? Or do you buy a larger position and exit if it isn't needed after a 2% loss.




Pardon my beginner's question

If I understand REE correctly, then how much wiggling room do you give to your trade.

say, if you get into APP at 160, do you exit when it drops below to 160?

thank you!


Tim is doing some serious last minute advertising.

If I get beat by Tim tonight, I turn off the blog.

It's just that simple :)

If you haven't voted, gimme a quickie!

If you vote too much, and you get me disqualified, I will take the other side of your next trade.

Ha, ha...just kidding.


I have traded by this same concept since I started trading in 97. The whole point is taking small losses.


Yes, a 2% allocation is good enough. It depends on how exposed you are to the market though. At times where I was 75% bullish, 25% bearish...I would take a bigger position.

OK, I voted again.

Where is the best place to learn more about the option greeks?

I just evaluated my trades and realized a few things. I should have been out of two of my calls on Thursday. Period. I smoked the hopium and got burned. Today really just was a reflection of poor decisions and not following my rules.

The other thing is I lost unrealized profits on HANS, not profit. That hurts but I know that there is an opportunity to get it back.


I just voted for you using another email.

I wish that you will win!!

and I know that you will!!



What greeks are you entertaining?



(My favorite)


You're funny tonight!

All of them actually. I realized from the reading the posts that I know the bare minimum about them and they are vital parts of trading. Yes?

Any word on if you are going to do the one-on-one thing that you mentioned a few weeks ago. Let me be the first one in line if so.

Yes. How is that going one-to-one?



REE is nothing new. It is nothing more than identifying your and resistance. I like acronyms, for me they work and are my rules. Once I have identified REE and RTR, then I look at RPRA (how big a postion, is the risk/reward acceptable, etc. Then, I get in att my EXIT, or as close to it as I can...that is REE.

REE has been widely accepted here by my fellow traders, and I am gld it helps. But remember, REE for one person is NOT REE for another. I have seen many times on this blog people state a stock ia at REE, I look at it and think, what the heck are they looking at.

Everyone has a difference of opinion of what a trendline is. Whatever defines your trendline, be it three different points in time a stock price hits it, or a previous high (which for me is not a trenline), or three differnet opening or closing prices on a candle (does not work for me either), define what is REE for you.

I'll go one further just for shits and giggles. I personally like a well established trendline for REE, or a pattern breakout for REE. When I put my money in the market to do battle, I want to get IN at a well defined exit, as close to it as possible. Today, some folks saw HANS as an entry, REE perhaps. It is for me at REE, but only at the close of the day, right at a diag trendline. For me, a perfect entry, at the close, not before.

Others may disagree.

Hope this sheds a little light.

Jeff, if you lose the bloggers award....well....I'll be fucking pissed....


wasn't it just yesterday (maybe the day before) you weren't going to use profanity anymore? Oh how quickly we forget.....

Do all your trades occur at three or will you take a bounce if it looks strong and it might hold up at 12noon.

I know Jeff's a rookie (humor) but seriously takes what ever he sees all day(ie.breakouts,wedges...) that's the only way to obtain true REE or the true qwaun(sp).


On HANS did you buy the overpriced options that I couldn't make the theo calc work on for NOV or DEC(if so which option) or did you buy the stock?

So on the HANS example, I just drew my trendline the exact same way you said. If I had gotten back into HANS today at closing price of 61.59, I would get out at the same price or darn close to it? Where then would you place a stop, or does that depend on your risk?

Sorry for all the questions but if we play 20 questions I still have 18 left. :-)

thanks raimo

I have saved your post.

I am re-defining my rule while spanking myself.


I have some good information from the Options Pricing and Volatility trading room that Jeff tried to get going a while back. He gave us a some information on the greeks and a chart of how they impact the various types of options. For the life of my I can't figure out why that trading room never really took off? In my opinion, that stuff is key to understanding how to trade options.... Anyway, if you want to send me an email I will be happy to make some arrangements to get it to you. It will at least give you a start! Also, I imagine the one book Jeff recommends will have in depth information... I think it is Options Made Easy by Cohen. Although I haven't read it yet...

OK rope a dope
or down the slippery slope
or how I met the pope
is leading
c'mon people I voted we have got to get in #1 position, nothing less
don't get RAimo pss'd he has way to much amo.
lets go vote

Thanks Jeff, yea I need to diversify, I have 3 call positions, no puts, so my exposure is too biased, however I am 60% in cash also. I wanted to get puts on SNDK but it basically took the whole move today. So I figured I may go broader with SPY puts for a bit of insurance.

We'll see how it plays out, I am going to vote now *cough*again*cough* , honestly those other blogs are a joke and if they somehow win we will know its from pure fraud because they are actually worthless.

If I wanted to hear an ignorant perma bear view I'd watch tv, if I wanted to see scantily clad butter faced women I'd go to the local club. LOL Just my opinion.

Nothing beats this blog, mine is of course close second. ;-) JK!!!


You've got mail. :-)

I only have two trades, my puts in ZION and calls in TIF. I didn't do too bad today.

Oh, I just voted for you Jeff.

Good Luck Brah,

wow,,had to work today and knew the markets were tanking and all I could think of was ,,crap,,crap,crap,,I wasn't able to take advantage of 300+ day,,,crap,,crap,crap,,,these kind of days are a daytraders dream and I missed it,,all I knew was I was going to get stopped out of some stuff,,loss some profits and make boatloads on my puts and short $ positions,,,but,,,,crap,crap,crap,,i missed all that great intraday action to capitalize on,,,oh well,,,still a great week for my account so I cant complain I guess.

Matt,,,CONGRATS!!!!!! on the new addition,,,we have 5 kids also,,,you are SO right about what life is all about,,,even though I couldn't get in there today to daytrade,,it is all perspective,,,I was on the right side of the bed today,,and when I think of what my shift was like,,(ER nurse)I am still blessed,,,saw nothing but pain and tragedy today for my patients and their families.

I would be happy to go through option pricing,projection,and how volatility will me if you like,,



Judging from the many posts since the market closed, I think how you and other successful traders hedge the market would be a great topic for the blog. I am a survivor of 2/27 and learned some painful lessons that day and have, in my opinion, been diversified. I did lose money today, more than I should have but am still up 50% in the last 3 weeks. I feel that I could have done more and will study that this weekend. But if you could shed some light on how you hedge, I would love it. Do you buy way OTM puts on the indices? or buy OTM puts on stocks you own and you feel have reached their peak, etc.etc., etc. How far OTM do you go etc.

Just an idea.

market cast is available now!

I shot you an e-mail just now. Thanks again for your help.


I forgot who said it, foggy brain still, on the TOS neutral concept. I have been watching that and thought the market was ready for a bear move so bought more puts and less calls did stock instead (some due to earnings and wanted to told longer term). My account was fairly balanced but had a negative delta. I thought I would be "safe" with a down move. I am sitting on a negative delta (100)now and for the day three trades were up two were net zero and the others all down pretty big (calls and puts). There is something I am missing here and I am determined to get it. FTI and POT my two largest $ losers. Not worried about POT but the FTI loss became real once stopped out. Maybe it was not as good of a REE as I thought. Will have to evaluate everything this weekend.

Honestly, I think I am doing so much better than even two weeks ago just my account does not show it. What bugs me is that it was for the first time and poof it is gone in one day.

Oh and did my voting thing again.

Bob (and Pam), I'm with you in that I'm doing better each and every week. I started out this week with 7 positions. By the time I cut the losers with small losses, all the bears I was interested in were too far away from REE to get in to. So I was left with 4 calls today. I have two positions that are down. One is down $1 on one contract (no, that is not a typo), and the other is down $120 on 4 contracts (so each one down thirty bucks). Of course, I gave back some unrealized gains like everybody else, but a month ago, on a day like this, I would have been down thousands.

The Marketcast preaches 3 things: Risk Management, Position Sizing, and Diversification. Even though, because of timing issues, I was not diversified, I was position sized beautifully, and by using REE, my risk was wonderfully managed (kisses, Raimo!). And although I was not happy about today's price action, I was not wiped out by it. In fact, my account is up from last week, the second week in a row that my account has been UP and not DOWN since June... I attribute my ever-improving trading results to this blog and the Marketcast.

Thanks to ALL of you for the support. :)

!!!!!!!!!BTW, Happy Birthday (tomorrow) to Chris's better half, the lovely Catherine!!!!!!!!!!!!


Would you please send me the same information you are sending Laney on the Options Pricing and Volatility trading room. My e-mail is I would appreciate it.



I'm with Ann... if it's not too much trouble...?

BTW, still shows us in the top 3...


My email is

My husband just reminded me that my bellsouth account comes with additional emails or aliases. Just signed up for 2 more and voted again. If we win by 2 votes you can thank me. I'm fairly certain we will win by a lot more than 2 votes.

Krystal and Ann,
Responded to you guys via email.

And I just voted again as well!

My dad and Snow White's step mom came into town today so I missed the last 15 minutes of the market. CRAP! Even though I wasn't happy with a lot of my positions, they were all still above and or below my stops. But by the end of the day there were a couple that went way below and of course it was in that last 15 minutes when I was gone.

I won't have too much of an opportunity to think about today's price action because of company so that's a good thing. I'm definitely going to be re-evaluating my stuff though before Monday. And I love it when the P/L list is zero every morning. I get a clean slate every day.

Oh, and Raimo... thanks for your post. Copied and printed it out. And I've got what I call "Jeff's words of wisdom in a panic situation" (Yesterday...Seems So Far Away) thread and the list of 30 stocks to avoid buying options on.

Good learning week. Actually, every week is a good learning week.

I hope everybody has a wonderful weekend! Do what you've got to do to get your head in the game next week.


I do not think the worst is over yet. This may very well be just the beginning.....

If i were a spider, i'b be tingling like crazy.


Which island are you going to?

We're leaving on the 30th for two weeks in Kauai.

We are vacationing with friends so unfortunately we're probably not trading for those two weeks.


Bob (and Pam)
On the TOS platform my current delta shows -67 on the monitor page. When I go to the analyze page and hit the - Show All- and the -Portfolio, Beta Weighted, then put the SPX in it shows that I am +64.54 Delta.......

I am assuming then that when I roll everything up I am still Delta Positive from the overall market.

Give that a try to see if your Delta changes. Also be sure to hit the - Delete Simulated Trades...


I am new to option trading and this blog.
I was looking for post for understanding the patterns, flags etc.
Can someone post a link or suggest a book that teaches the pattern identification specifically for option trading.


we are going to Kaui too. We will be coming home on the 28th, so we'll just miss you....

My plane leaves in just a few hours, so I gotta go to bed....Night all :)

It's almost midnight as I'm catching up here, so maybe no one will even seen this. But I wanted to express my amazed gratitude at the generosity expressed here. Raimo (or is it Rambo? Ramio? Bob?), today you, especially, have patiently been giving answers to bewildered newbies and learned traders alike, but many of the rest of you have also been encouraging (and yes, maybe thumping a little) some of the dismayed who are looking for some affirmation.
I too took a little hit today. I've been away - babysitting grandchildren for a week and then traveling with friends for a week (almost killed me being away from this group for so long). Coming back, there was so much good discussion going on, so many good ideas being passed back and forth that I jumped into a couple of things I shouldn't have. Not a big deal - a contract here and there - but I didn't follow rules, and I'm paying for it. I can only say, thank God for GLD, etc. (or would that be, thank Eric and Jeff and Brett and ... well, you get the picture).
It's been yet another good lesson and I'm eager to add that one to the others.
A couple of observations:
-We have GOT to add a glossary, so we don't have to keep re-defining terms like REE and Clean Cups. (I think it was Barbara who first suggested this)
- I am so grateful for the mix of hand-holding, affirmation, encouragement, tough love and thumping. There's something for everyone, no matter what you need, at any particular moment.

Option Noobie . .check out the recommended reading list, or just hang around here for awhile and you'll get more information than you can handle.
And . .happy birthday Catherine.
See you next week, OAs,

Someone spoke on CNBC regarding commondities, that their fund was going to sell off OIL and GOLD at the end of month. He felt they were both over extended.

Eric has been beating the drum on GOLD. What is the relationship... does it still go up with recession worries?



Welcome and glad to see that your back. Hope you and Sam had a great vacation.


Looking forward to seeing you and Dan Monday night.

Heres my take on the day...

Did I loss money today....yes
Did I learn any thing....yes
Did i violate any rules....just one!
what am I going to do about it....make it all back next week!

Due to Jeff and all of you here and to many close friends in town I'm still here to trade next week and I'm actually looking forward to it with a fresh prospective and mind and I hope you ALL are to.

Long: Next week

Short: Friday

Disclamer: I believe in myself.

Oh my goodness your baby is sooooooo cute!

Congrats on the new one!

To all,
The blog is in the top 3 for Best Business, Best Podcast and Best Video. Woohoo!

What happened to the Best Education category? I know I placed a couple of votes in there last week but when I went back last night, I couldn't vote in there anymore. I thought we were doing so well in that category too.

Anyway, the voting is over. How/when do we find out the results?

Thank you Va Beach Girl.


Lisa G.

Me too, please.

Thanks much!


Lisa G.,

Please e-mail me too. I had at one time a run off of the Greek meanings and uses, but can't find it. It came from a trading room class, but I don't remember it being Jeff. Too long ago to remember who.


Lisa G.,
Sorry, I forgot to give you my e-mail. It is


Bob and Pam .... glad to respond to your request ...

The biggest reason I ended up with a profit on Friday are ETF's that I bought to counter an eventual drop. I knew to do it but about 10 days ago Brett reminded me in a blog entry that he was taking some ETF's for future drop and I jumped in substantially with them that day to counter ... IWM / SPY and DIA ... I balanced my portfolio with them and came out ahead with the giant move down. Actually, my portfolio has profited everyday this week with the PUT side of my portfolio. At the end of Friday, I was 255 Delta positive ... Always hope for neutral but obviously, with my Calls vs. Puts .. the balance was good enough.

I also am in JCP/ LFG / MTW / PTRY and WNR as puts .. Add it together and it produced the 3.5% profit ....

Now in calls, I am down on many and close to REE for getting rid of ENR and WYNN ... the others held their own including DVA, ACH, POT, HMIN, LDSH, AAPL and RIMM among others ....

I am in the best month ever since trading options began 1 year ago and had the best week ever this past week. I have already made more money (taken off of the table) in 19 days of October than I will draw from my insurance agency in October. But this is and will continue to be a hobby for me. I love my fulltime job of 29 years too. Quite blessed I think!

I take to heart what Jeff teaches. I don't try to say he is wrong or question him .. I'm an open minded student just trying to find my way through all of this like you guys. I read to obsession .. I hardly miss MarketCast (IPOD it to work out with daily in the AM). I read only this blog and pay real close attention to about 8 to 10 people that contribute and miss NONE of Jeff's post. I can't do all others do and I don't have the experience or rules to take all of Jeff's picks but so many are 'money' - I can't refuse them after I do my due diligence to fit my rules. I still papertrade certain situations that I don't want to risk money on such as a Ratio spread I did this week on the GOOGLE earnings. Would have made $1500 in one day had I real time traded it. Will play with the strategy again and again until I feel confident that I can risk a little to make a lot.

Hope this helps Bob .. always enjoy reading your entries and if I can help any more, let me know.

Sorry for the long post but on the weekend, I guess we can take a little more time to explain and not take attention away from the market. Thanks to all of you for your contributions. They have been incredibly helpful in my growth as a trader!

DG and others ---- Going Mobile ----

I need to put a plug in for my Sprint Mobile Card. I love it....

Laptop $700
Broadband card $60 month - $720 year

After Taxes ~ $1065 for the year assuming 25% for taxes.

Now the REAL Question-

Will having a laptop and the ability to have it up and running EVERY DAY between 3:30-4:00 eastern either make me $1065 a year or at least help me to not lose $1065 a year.

Complete No-Brainer for me. The added plus is when not trading I still have access to the internet. Sometime I research charts on the way to Church, My In-Laws house ect..

Just my thoughts


Sorry, I wasn't around much after hours yesterday.

If you would like a quick reference and discussion of the chart patterns and more, try these 2 free sites: and click on chart patterns (you don't have to sign up for anything), or

Also, for more in depth resources, go to the bookstore link at the top of this site.

Good Luck

OH, and


Flying Pro - when I said 'mobile' I wasn't referring to a laptop. I already have that. I mean crackberry mobile. I was wondering if anyone used the new TOS program for trading on a blackberry. I want to know if it will work on a Treo. I don't even know what the difference is. So I was hoping someone here uses one or the other and could fill me in.

happy birthday Catherine

its the weekend,,time for a poem-off?

I had it on my Treo, but it was worthless (the phone, not the software). I imagine the Blackberry is the better route to take.

Raimo, while you're off shooting creatures
I've been thinking of new blog features,

such as a glossary of Option Addict terms
so all the newbies can quickly learn

what REE, RTR and WTF mean
and how about a cookbook of OA cuisine?,

or a device to ban your favorite word...F@#K
'cause Laney thinks your vocabulary sucks,

then there's a scrapbook to post OA photos
or a video site for DG's drum concertos,

A family site, from which you would be banned
because you have no control of your Pituitary Gland,

on another site, we could post all our prose
but not Tim's haiku, what the HECK (Ok, Krystal?) are those?,

a beverage center, we would stock only HANS
and a brewery for Arty would be in the plans,

quick access to a dictionary so Chris could relate
and learn to spell antihesis and obfuscate,

a site for discount ammuntion
so you can continue your "Rambo" ambition,

or a help site where we post our careers
and just for you, pictures of your favorite....Brittany Spears,

a talent site where we post our natural gifts
but not your "Tent Recordings" that cause to tent spikes to lift,

Anyway Raimo, just a few of my musings
I hope you don't find them confusing,

I tried to use little words so you would understand
except for obfuscate on which Chris can expand,

Make your reply a good one or next time I think
when you log on the blog, your will shrink,

So put down the rifle, come down from the tree
because now it is your turn to respond to PP.

The Phanton Poet

And yes Chris,
I know I mispelled antithesis!


And misspelled!


OH, the shame!


Oh, my! That was funny.

Sean, are you the Phanton Poet??


Wrong. But really, does anyone really want to know who the Phantom Poet is? There is no fun in that. If Raimo knows who I am, then my chiding is personal and not in good fun as both Raimo and I view it is now....or at least I think Raimo does. I'm sure when and if Raimo feels it is personal, I will need bodyguards.

Doji Girl
I posted a note to you yesterday concerning the Blackberry application.

I downloaded the "think micro" application and have been using it a couple of weeks on my blackberry. I love it. I was using the "think mobile" which was very limited.
The new download lets you look at option pricing, orders, position, etc. No charts obviously.
I would recommend this for anyone that needs a way to constantly check their positions and exit them if need be.
Hope this helps. Do you have the blackberry or the treo?


Raimo and Jeff

Saturday afternoon, I am studying in my small apartment :-(

do you buy your stock at the last hour of the trading day?



It would depend when you get your buy signal, wouldn't it?

What's going on with the time stamp? Or else I'm Sleeping Beauty and I've lost several hours.

Are you going to go to Vegas for the Awards?

Barry, I didn't see your comment before re blackberry. Thanks for reposting.

Jeff, thanks re the Treo. I guess I will look into blackberry. I have to get something. I have the world's worst (and cheapest) cel phone so it's time to bite the bullet and up to speed technologically.

PP - a REALLY nice offering. I have a fairly good idea of your identity but if I post it and I'm correct I doubt you will own up to it so I'll keep it to myself.

So when do we find out who won the bloggers award?

Unless they contact me about the victory, or arrest me for fraudulent votes, it looks like it remains a secret until Nov.

The time stamp is different because today I am spending all day building the new and improved Option Addict website.

OK, Phantom, point taken. :)

Back to the greeks for me. Jeff, why is Gamma your favorite?


Could you please post on how to use index options to hedge your account. I have read bits and pieces, of this throughout the blog but no real concise idea of strike prices, expiration months etc. I know you had answered Ben about using about two percent for position sizing but could you please address this concept as a whole?

If you have already written this in an article I might have missed please direct me to where I can find it. I ran the search and did not find an article on using index options specifically as a hedge position.

All fingers and toes are crossed for the November announcement.


Since it's quiet now and you're reading this, I want to reiterate my offer to you (which you may have missed during all the blog traffic here on Thursday) to do your graphic stuff, like what you paid someone to do for the HANS picture. I'm pretty good with Photoshop and it wouldn't cost you anything. As I said before it would be my pleasure and the least I can do for all the help and encouragement you've given us on a daily basis.

Email me if I can do anything for you.


I was kidding about pying someone. It was an on the fly excuse for a 1/2 ass effort.

However, I will keep you in mind for upcoming projects though.


Why index options for hedging, and why are they different from buying an option on anything else?


Gamma tells me how potent my position will be after a nice move in the stock. It is a metric of how potent my positions are.

All I know about gamma is that it is the delta of the delta, so to speak, or how much the delta will move after the first dollar move. I have more questions on gamma:
1- Does it change as the stock moves?
2- what goes into determining the gamma of an option?
3- Does it have anything to do with the beta of the underlying?
4- How do I interpret the gamma numbers on the TOS monitor page as it relates to a position?
5- Should gamma be considered when position sizing and if so, how much?

Sorry for all the questions but inquiring minds want to know!

thanks Jeff for your reply.

Wow! Jeff is working very hard on the weekend!

I can not wait to see the new website.

People chat so much.....and a lot of good information!



You are too funny. You are just like me. Wife leaves for the weekend. Do you go to a bar? Sit in your underware and watch TV? Nope, No point in having fun, if your Wife isn't there. Just Work, Work, Work.

If you get real bored you could always go bowling....

Looking forward to the changes, and to kicking the crap out of the market next week. Silly me had positions in VLO, OII and OIH on Friday. I deserved to have my A$$ handed to me. My Mother used to tell me not to touch the stove. I am smart enough to not touch the stove anymore, and now I will make sure I don't have too many positions in one sector.

Doji, I use the think-micro from TOS on my Blackberry ... works great!

Looking forward to the updated site Jeff .. even though the current one is an award winner ... Thanks for your efforts!

You'll love the new one even better. I love the look, feel and there are so many more resources available. I am hoping everyone will be blown away.


Gamma will have to be something I review again in the near future. As with every greek, it is not static. It changes as stock prices do. What you ought to know now, is if you are trading breakouts, with atm or otm options, it helps increase your delta in a hurry.

I so often work big time when my wife has been or is out of town ... Looks like Amber being away helps you to help us ... I am sure you would much rather be hanging with her than doing blog updates! Thanks!

How about the games today!! USC!! UCLA!! fLORIDA!!! Ohio state!! Auburn just took a blow to LSU wow what a day!!!

With all this talk of diversification, well, I was diversified. But my two shorts simply didn't compare to the collapse of my three longs. Then there's LFG, UP fer' cryin' out loud. I closed it because I don't like holding onto short positions that go UP on a -366 day.

I'll restate a question I had earlier. When you are in a position (short for example) and it doesn't budge despite a major market move in the 'right' direction, do you hold on or let it go figuring something else is keeping it from moving in the direction you expect?

Pulled this forward.... any comments?

Someone spoke on CNBC regarding commondities, that their fund was going to sell off OIL and GOLD at the end of month. He felt they were both over extended.

Eric has been beating the drum on GOLD. What is the relationship... does it still go up with recession worries?



Ask yourself this question did it break your support line!

LSU strikes back!!


I believe the person you are referring to is Dennis Gartman,,he is a very well know and respected commodities trader,,writes a newletter. He stated that he is concerned about the onesided trade in gold, oil and dollar. He stated that everyone is bullish on oil and gold and short the $,,he was going to "lighten" his positions because he viewed them as "crowded". We all know that things can remain overbought and oversold for extended periods of time,,,prime example,,the yen during their financial crisis a fews back,,,people said for a long time it couldn't go down any farther,,but it did.
That being said,,,I just think we all need to make sure we stay properly position sized.
Gold is a hedge against inflation,,which the rising price of oil and commodities,,especially the "softs",,are pointing to.Gold is also the "anti-dollar",,,we have seen this just last week with the incredible drop in TIC flow,,,all those billions have to go somewhere,,most made it to gold and euros.

I hope this helps


I was asking about index options for hedging because of the question initially presented by Ben about what percentage of your account you use in an Index option as a hedge. But I gather from your question that the only time you would would want to do that is if the chart of the Index is giving a reason to do so as you showed us last week with the head and shoulders in the S&P. Also am I right in understanding that IF the chart of the Index showed weakness then the amount of puts you would use would be dependent on the proportion of bullish to bearish plays you have at the time? And I get what you are saying about treating it as any another option I would be buying in terms of the strike and expiry.
So if I was well diversified I wouldn't really need to use Index options as hedges.

Have I understood this point right Jeff?



Looked at LFG myself just for the heck of it. I agree with CA trader...and had I been in the trade, I would not have even thought about exiting. The market does not move stocks, stocks move the market. I have been in many trades that move opposite the market. It's a patience thing. You never know when a stock is going to have to stick to your rules and your plan, or why even bother having them.

Just my 30-06 worth if it helps...

Phantom....nicely done..

Come monday, it'll be alright...


your comments on LFG was much appreciated. The more you hear a concept the more it sticks until it becomes a part of you.


Hey bulls, be careful out there! Nasd will dip to at least 2600-2650 support area. At least! Don't kid yourselves now, thinking that we get a rally on Monday and everything is ok.

You shouldn't listen to the permabears, because they're always negative eventually they'll get a carrot right. But i'm a raging bull and i'm turning scared. So ya gotta pay some attention to that.

For all you spelling buffs.

Only great minds can read this
This is weird, but interesting!

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too
Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The
phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde
Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny
iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The
rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is
bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a
wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

Time to do homework.

*******BREAKING NEWS*******
*******THIS JUST IN********

Hey guys, did anyone else notice that Trading Goddess is no longer listed in the top 3 on the bloggers choice website? Yep, it's us, Tim Knight, and Inspector Gadget. I guess the Trading Goddess got knocked up, er, out at the last minute. Maybe the Gadget people waited until the last few minutes of the vote and cast a ton of votes.

I still don't think they'll have us beat, though, because they needed those votes just to get back IN to the top 3, whereas we were already there.

Can't wait to see how this turns out!

******Step away from the computer.... This message will self-destruct...********

GYM, I just saw your comment from the last thread.

I got out of ELON in the middle of last week. And yes, I'm enjoying the ride with CNQ, but I did give back some gains on Friday... But then again, didn't we all? :)

Is anybody else having trouble launching ProphetCharts from IT?

My charts are working fine.

For those of you struggling with entries and exits, if you have access to the Advanced Tech trading rooms, I highly recommend the Captstone Session taught by Scott. I watched it last night and it really helps refine your plan, tie it all together and gives you some concrete rules for either short swing traders or trend traders.

There has been a lot of questions about hedging one's account. The "TOS amgazine that just came out titled Think Money has a 2 page article on hedging. Not in depth but still interesting.

In my opinion, Tradinggoddess got reported in, by sissyboys OptionsAddica and Timmybear people, because several people voted many times. Those votes were taken out. But the truth is, lots of people from this blog and Timmybear blog voted many times as well, but Tradinggoddess people never reported them in because she's got class.

Just my opinion.

Good luck and godspeed.

This week should be brutal for the markets.

Somebody needs their font shrunk!


I am a dumbass. Cleaned up and deleted my inbox....I know u sent me an e-mail..I deleted it before I read it..beat me, I deserve it. I owe u now...apologies...


How rude! I am going to have to beat you..... I am sure it was extremely important... I will resend....

Benton, thanks a bunch. I read the post twice and funny thing (not really) is that I was testing the ETF shorting idea in paper trading and made $2000 Friday but not real money. If I had done that in my real account I would have been up for the week and the month. Not by much but up. I just went through all my trades and I see a couple getting stopped out tomorrow if we are down. One of my rules is never move the stop (mental or hard) down from the plan so if they go they go.

Tom, thanks I tried it on TOS and like you I was positive but only + 17.45 so almost zero. Strange to be so close to neutral and get hit so hard still. I was in LFG and others that just did not move or even went the wrong way.

Jeff, I listened to your Cast from Friday again today and what you outlined in it for balance and diversity I thought I did. I have no international though. Water, Gold, balanced calls and puts. Good news I guess is it was only unrealized profits at this point.

DG, I use the Blackberry and thanks to Barry am using it now with the new software that is oh so much better than before. I had to change the table layout a few times but other than that really cool. Don't look at it while driving though. Important for RE - I thought only Treos would work for the electronic lock box though.

Well, I am off looking for something to get my +17.45 delta closer to zero. Maybe some of those Benton mentioned.

Amen, Sean! Not to mention the atrocious grammar and spelling. The comma splices alone are reason enough to shrink him.


I just wanted to say thanks again for the great notes. I spent the better part of last night re-writing them and highlighting the articles.

I also saw that you are a PT, I teach group fitness. :-)

Hey Laney,
No problem. Glad you found them helpful. Hopefully they all made sense. Let me know if something doesn't and I will do my best to clarify. If not, we'll go back to the boss!

I didn't forget about the others that requested that I email them. I will do so tomorrow when I get to my office--I am having an issue with my scanner here at home.

Yes, I am also a PT--when I choose to be, that is! It becomes a function of time.... I thought I recall you saying you teach Body Pump. I like both that, and the Body Combat.

LisaG, Laney....

Body pump, body combat....??

You two are scaring me...

Be afraid, Raimo. Be very afraid! :-)

Yes Raimo... And something you should remember next time you delete one of my emails without reading it!

I am getting a bigger gun...


Can you include me on the list for tomorrow's email? I didn't get the first one... I believe you sent it on Friday, but I didn't have anything in my Inbox and I also checked the Junk Mail folder just in case. Hope it's not too much trouble... :)

I did send you an email just to let you know that I would get the info to you as soon as I have it scanned. However, I am sure you didn't get it because I think I only put one L at the end of your name... Anyway, you are on the list.

LisaG, please add me to that list too.


Okay, I have no idea what this list is, but as long as I dont have to volunteer for any of this body pump combat stuff with you and Laney, put me on it too...WTF....


I should have pointed that out to you (it's my middle initial). Sorry about that. :)

Thanks so much!


The topic of all the email stuff has to do with my notes from Jeff's Option Pricing and Volatility Trading Room that he started last year. Laney had expressed some confusion about the greeks and their impact on option pricing and I offered her my notes since he had done a great job summarzing/charting the different greeks and their impact to the ITM, ATM and OTM options.

Now that you know the topic, if you are still interested in seeing them I can certainly send them to you as well. No combat interaction required.....

Lisa G.,

Can I be on the list too?

Any other of you Southern Californians surrounded by these fires??


how is your new blog coming along?

BTW, can you please go to investool's discussion/price pattern and post your latest pattern chart there?

thank you!


Be safe, Sean!

Body Pump and Body Combat are two group fitness classes at the gym. Body Pump is a weight training class using a bar (the lifting kind) LOL, and plates. Body Combat is a kick boxing type class. I don't do that one because I suffer from white-girl syndrome and therefore have no co-ordination. :-) I run instead.

White-girl syndrome?? Too funny... I'm a runner too. Normally only do combat once or twice a week.

Wanted to let you know that if you go to that Option Trader website you can get copies of that magazine for free. I usually get an email every month when the new issue is available for download. Sometimes there is some good information in there.

Laney, I, too, suffer from white-girl syndrome...even though I'm black! LOL!

Actually I'm mixed with black, white, and Indian, but I digress...

Anybody try that Marketcast recipe (not the gourmet egg, the other one; banana bread or something)? Just wondering because I was thinking about trying it for breakfast one morning...


may give me the option trader's website?

thank you!


I'm feeling left out! Can I be on your list too, Lisa? I never did get to see that trading room.

Bob (& Pam) - thanks for the heads upon the Treo vs Blackberry for realtors. I will look into it but if I have to choose between a device for trading and a device for real estate, which do you think would win? Is there any doubt?? I AM AN OA! There is no choice!

If I wanted to trade an option on the S&P index, what's the symbol? I tried entering $SPX in TOS, but it didn't pull up anything.

Boy, can ya tell I'm a newbie!...

The website is

Just a heads up, you might want to pick and choose what you print because there are numerous ads in there that are a waste of ink.

All you need is SPX in the trade screen on TOS. Heads up--they are expensive....

thank you! lisa

yes, a lot of information!


LisaG, ATM options on the SPX are like mortgage payments for like, 300 families!

Moving on... :)

Hi LisaG-

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, would you mind sending me a copy too (from one runner to another)? :)

If your to send list is getting too long, I understand.

Thank you,

No problem. I just told Doji Girl that I sure hope the notes make sense since they are going to be so widely circulated!


Thanks so much! I look forward to seeing it.


What's the matter, Krystal? Dontcha have an extra hundred grand laying around for an SPX call?

Check the couch cushions.:-)

I love your picture!

Thanks Laney,

You should see the air around my house. My home is not threatened but there is ash falling all around and the air is toxic. It has been dark since 2 pm out here because of the smoke. These winds always bring out the crazies. We were in Malibu yesterday, by Pepperdine University and feel for those that have lost their homes. My parents lost their home to a fire and it takes at least 2 years to recover.

Thanks Laney,

You should see the air around my house. My home is not threatened but there is ash falling all around and the air is toxic. It has been dark since 2 pm out here because of the smoke. These winds always bring out the crazies. We were in Malibu yesterday, by Pepperdine University and feel for those that have lost their homes. My parents lost their home to a fire and it takes at least 2 years to recover.

Well Catherine's a year older. I have spent the weekend analysing all my trades or lack thereof to try and determine what I could have done better last week. I was positive Friday was going to be bad. I had no idea just HOW bad. The good news is that Friday's losses cut my gains for the week down to 12%. Normally I'd be thrilled with that. Right? The downside was that as of Thursday night it was 35%. Catherine and I sat in the hot tub last night and toasted an awesome week. The losses on these huge down days are getting smaller and I am learning more about what to do. I should have taken some profits that I didn't... but that's OK.

I have analysed myself to death this weekend. I don't think I've come up short. Except height-wise. And there's nothing I can do about that... except maybe steal some of Jeff's some time when he's not looking.

I'm sorry, I'm not feeling funny tonight. Raimo's threatening me just for mocking him. If a Marine can't take a mocking and keep on talking (... get it? "Took a licking and kept on ticking?") then who can you mock? Sheesh.

I am feeling really, really, good about my trading and I said to Catherine that if it wasn't for this blog I think I'd have traded ourselves into a deep, dark, bottomless pit. This blog is the BEST BUSINESS BLOG ON THE PLANET. Bar none.

Sleep well, my friends. Tomorrow's another day and I can't wait to get into it.

I cannot wait.

Barmack19? Are you one of those bar-guys that hangs out looking for chicks and calls himself "Mack?" Like mack-the-knife? Sorry to hear about the fires. We will keep you in our thoughts and wish wet things for you. Am I allowed to say that on a family blog?

Are you Kenny G's sister? If you have room to add another noteworthy individual to the list I'd be interested in seeing your notes too.

Don't forget that tomorrow night is the Advanced Freebie.

Laney, I don't know why I was being so ditsy... I can just tap into my trust fund! :)

Chris, I've analyzed myself, too. And I'm in the same boat... shoulda (I know, hypocritical of me to use "slang spelling" after the whole debacle, right?) taken some profits that I didn't. But I was STILL up for the week (cue angels, white light, and "Hallelujah" chorus). Not as much as I could have been, but not down like I used to be...week after week after week after week...!

Well, I'm off to bed. See all you guys and gals in the morning...

Long: Taking profits more quickly
Short: Sleepless nights nursing a 7-month-old

Yes, I hold you personally responsible for besmirching my reputation.

Hey by the way... your name has gone from blue to black. You're a chameleon (yes I checked the spelling... so don't waste your time)!!! How'd you do that?

The thing that I'm really excited about is that I'm not really afraid of what the day does tomorrow. I'm ready for action, one way or another.

Unless it drops 2,600 points at the opening bell.

Then I'm up the creek.


Thanks for thinking about wet things for me but pleeeeeaaasse not while you are sleeping!!

Barmack19 is a combo of my wife's and my name and not a nickname I was awarded at a local watering hole. I am not inclined to drink to excess outside the home so that is why I installed a kegerator. Now I can throw the peanut shells on the floor and pinch my bride on her "put side" and get away with it. I would like to learn spreads.....but let's not go there.

Hi, sorry to bring up old news, but could someone steer me to the conversation on how to set up a trading business. I think it was this month sometime, I was interrupted when reading past posts and lost my place, I was so into it that I didn't notice what day I was on and can not find it again. There was refernce to S & C corps, etc.

Thanks - Stump

Sean, I am laughing out loud. Seriously, you are so witty! Buying a put will forever be funny to me now.

OK, I am really going to bed now.


I am fairly certain that it was last Saturday so check last Friday's post.

Thanks Laney,
I am trying in a futile way to keep up with Chris but I bow to the King.


I copied these sites during the last flurry of suggestions about setting up a trading corp. :


The thread that I think you want started on 10-12-2007 and had 230 posts.

Good stuff - I did a copy & paste on a bunch of it.



What is it you are asking me to post? Where and why?

If it is price patterns you want, this is why I have a blog.

Sean M. - I know about fire and construction safety. Not to make this an ad but if interested visit our web site

DG, Blackberry it is then.

Chris, congrats and if it were not for two trades my balanced account would have survived better.


on your 10/16/07 price pattern trading room, you talked about the price pattern.

I would like to print it out.

Is it already posted somehwhere on the blog? oh...let me check around...

Jeff...whenever you say "mimosa", I always feel fainting..... you have that magic on me .....

Mimosa who is very scared of Jeff...

Yes I was surrounded by the S. Cal fires... check out my pictures here:

Good luck tomorrow trading!

May I be on the list too?

Good morning, traders. Today is going to be really trying. It looks like whatever bullish positions I have left will be stopped out at the open. The futures look really ugly at this hour. Good luck, everyone.


Are you getting stoppped out
(at the open) because of stop orders you have in place, or because you are planning on getting out at the open??


I understand risk management, but getting 'stopped out at the open' is usually a recipe for disaster. If your bullish positions held up friday, it might be a good idea to see what the day brings first.

I'm not saying we're going to get a bounce by day's end (i was predicting a bounce all-day friday), but a capitulation reversal is not totally out of the cards. Selling at the open was the layup of the year after the way we closed friday, and with the right diversification, you should be able to survive whatever today brings.

I closed several bullish positions friday, but several survived, and may survive today as well.

Just my opinion. I never like to get shaken out of good trades.

cool website.

Raimo, Brett,
One position was about .20 from being stopped out on Friday. Are you saying I should cancel my stop and wait for the early morning dust to settle and then get out if I feel the need? The others have a bit more room but if the market open is as bad as it looks right now, they will probably go too.

What are your thoughts about turning calls gone bad into spreads by selling calls against them? With the higher ivol, might this be a good idea?


I don't like, nor do I use, hard stops anymore. I lost so much money on 2/27, I thought I was smart having hard stops in place while I was away for a week, but everything gapped down and I got stung hard. Had I had no stops, the damge would have been so much less as I had time to recover...but that was not the case. So I no longer use them. I rely on the charts, price and volume action, and make decisions accordingly. Since I always enter my trades at REE, and since I am here live all day trading, I can keep my losses small yet still allow intr day price movement and make my decicions at end of day.

Not everyone trades full time, so for them, I usppose this is more difficult.

I have no experience selling calls to flip trades....but then again, my style of trading (REE) has really made a difference in my P & L so I am not seeing the need to do that.....but then, maybe I should look into it too..making money is making money...

I would love a copy of your notes re: greeks.
Thanks a million

Brett and Raimo,
Thanks for your input(s) to DG. I was all set to (if Sean will pardon my saying...) put eveything out there on a fire sale. Because I'm above my break-even for the year, I thought that if I bail and even take a 10% loss today I can still be above break-even and then I can sit back, catch my breath, and figure out what to do.

After reading your posts I went through every trade I have and discovered that there are only 6 that I'm worried about... 2 of which I should have bailed from on Friday (NOV and XOM.)

I have to admit though, if I had got out of most of my trades Friday before noon I would have cut my losses dramatically... so I'm still not sure how much rope to give these guys today. Catherine is doing an admirable job of backseat driving and now that she's suddenly a year wiser... well there's no living with her.

Sean... did anyone ever tell you that a Wet-Nap is really just a very short wet dream? If you covered your roof in Wet-Naps would that help? Sean, Liz and Grant, and Bob (and Pam) we're all thinking of you.

PS... most of my puts are up in after hours trading. Whose idea of a joke is this?


okay, so ...ascending triangle, earings done, price at the lower trendline or the Asc triangle. This is my REE for sure. Trendline bounce within a pattern, and would of course love to see it break out. This is about as low risk as you can get.

If you get in and the trade goes great, you cna thank me. If it goes south, blame C2.

And if you like PH, look at ESL..

Hey Chris,

My handsome counterpart's birthday is today and this is the daunting 39 for him as well. Maybe we can hold a joint mid life crisis party for them together this time next year.

Love ya Dan! Happy Birthday!

Can we talk a little about diversifying here today?

I have gold and ETFS and stock plays (need more puts), and EVERYTHING was red Friday. Maybe I don't understand diversification.

I don't think I'm alone in not understanding diversification as well as I should.

And even before Friday, all week long, my oil plays were down. And all week long the headlines read that oil was hitting all-time highs. Why was that the case? I had oil stocks and OIH. Just wondering what I did wrong there.

Trying to learn from last week and move on to a higher level.



Jeff has said this before, and I have experienced it firsthand: There are many times by selling on 'gut instinct' i would have preserved profits or cut losses. Many trades I've taken run against me initially. A big example is when I indentifed that huge reversal day a week ago Thursday. The next day I bought DIA and IWM puts on the open Friday. What happened? The market rallied sharply all day and I was in the red. We all know what happened next.

1 or 2 days doesn't make a trade. Stick with what works until it absolutely fails. Don't be a hero, but don't be a sheep either. Stick to the plan. The markets have been very easy to trade in generally, but I personally have experienced many tough and draining days (like Friday). Stay focused and the payoff will be there for you.

I'm trying to take profits on DSX, but TOS is not letting me....Any ideas?

I have an order in, the stock is trading, but the options are grayed out as if they're not available for trading right now or something...

Nevermind... TOS finally kicked in...

Having the same problems here. TOS would not allow me to sell or modify but ALL my calls hit their stops so I am only in puts now which I hate. Also prophet charts will not pull up. I can't say how many times this happens to me on days like today were the tools I need do not work and make things worse.

Bob, ProphetCharts wouldn't pull up for me either (in Firefox). Darned Tim Knight. I had to pull it up in Internet Explorer. But don't forget, you can use your TOS charts for now... although, if you're like me, you've got your watch lists stored in ProphetCharts.

Looks like the other indices are holding at a support level. Where do you guys see the next level of support for the DOW? 13250?


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About me

  • I'm Option Addict
  • From Saratoga Springs, Utah, United States
  • I am a professional trader and an instructor for Investools. I've had relations with the markets for 9 years. Born in Concord, CA, but reside in Saratoga Springs, Utah. Father of THREE, Husband of one.
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