Show Me Some Love

I effectively caused another buy-out. Check out BIIB, or at least the after-hours quote.

You are welcome.

I just got off the phone with the CEO of Biogen and we both agreed that putting the company up for sale was a better alternative than a hostile take-over from the Option Addict. I am so proud of myself I am tempted to swear. How is that for a pre-cursor to a phenomenal weekend?

Speaking of a phenomenal weekend, I need your help. Apparently the competition is heating up around this "Best Blogger Award." I am not about to go down, and I am hoping you have my back on this.

All you need to do is click here, to sign up.

Once you do, Click here to cast your vote.

That's it!!!! Please!!! I am not going to get beaten in this competition. There is a lot more riding on this than I thought.

Recommendation: If you don't cast a vote, the market will take your money next week. I promise.

Long: Option Addict

Short: Competition

Disclaimer: I vote for myself regularly.

First in line.

Already voted!


I finally figured out how to get in to vote last night. Unfortunately it was 1:00 AM this morning so I can't vote until midnight tonight. I'm going to create a new log-in and vote again today. We're at 73 votes and there's another one at 73 and then one at 74. I sense a leapfrog happening.

I thought I was voting the first time I signed up but I just re-did it correctly. You can vote for this blog in all 4 categories.


Jeff, you rock! Thanks for everything! Have a great weekend everyone!

scott and audrey

I tried to nominate it for Best Blog of All Time but it can only have a maximum of 4 categories, hahah.

Oh well, I got my 4 votes in. :-)

pretty hard work, I am so exhausted from voting I'll take the whole weekend off.


I just voted again. Total count now is 83. Next one up is 90.

we got to figure out a way to beat tim knight's blog (

Just back from a long lunch with a friend and what do I find you all up all up too...WNR talk! Chris and Sean look what you started, I had nothing at all to do with this.

Jeff, I promise I vetoed. It took me several attempts as it forgot my login in password (I didn't it did) so I had to create a new one. Now I am a dual personality. This really comes in handy when I am evaluating trades as I can ask my other self if it is at REE.

Thanks everyone this was a good week as it ended up. Better for those of you in BIIB if it holds, as I have experienced that twice before - don't count 'em until Monday.

Now if I could just get my other self to review my 297 emails.

I just voted with my other 2 e-mail addresses, Dan did 3 and I forced my kids to login and do it too. (I wouldn't let them eat dinner until it was done.)


After seeing the BIIB news, your on! I have some Jan 75 calls that I'm dieing to see how they turn out. Worse case I expect to take my 21% down to under 15%, just not sure how far down.

I predict that if the success from your book gets out in the open, you will make a million!

By the way I have a great Excel spreadsheet (version 3 and counting) that really helps me track existing trades with a running total. It does stocks and options and takes into account commissions, days held, percent return and annual %, etc. I can plug in an estimated selling price and know what percent I would make, which helps me make some decisions. If anyone is interested, shoot an email my way, and I'll send a copy your way.

What a great way to end the week! Thanks for the strong-arm tactics on BIIB Jeff - your the man!


OK OA's we're at 94 votes!

I smell triple digits soon!

Jeff, if you post some "tasteful" pictures of female celebrities, you can probably sway all the votes for the "trading goddess's" blog your way and get into the top 3!


Loved the previous post from Jeff today. Like alot of other OAs, I copied it to have close by.

Many wonderful posts today. Arty and Brett, yours stand out in my mind.

Congrats to all on BIIB!! I'm pleased that so many held on to it and profited big time.

Unfortunately I sold my three contracts yesterday on the downturn for almost nothing, bought back in right after and sold again on the next leg down in the market. Two contracts of which I had held for three weeks. Did not get back in this morning because I will not be near a computer to babysit or take on any trades until Tuesday or Wednesday because I'll be out of town. Darn!!

Fortunately there will be other opportunities in my career to get a gift like BIIB. And fortunately I sold NILE yesterday.

Have a great weekend everyone!


Thanks for your votes everyone!

Have a great weekend!

You're awesome!

Chris and Sean, you should both be ashamed of yourselves, I could be your daughter! You are however making me laugh hysterically. :-)

I truly don't think that I will ever be able to look at WNR the same again.

wow, I had ldsh and biib circled on my watch list, chose ldsh, which is working out well, to bad I didn't choose biib, congrats, I'll go vote now.
DebbieH,long time lurker

Wild Blue is my tree satellite provider here in the woods for the curious minds.

Not much time to post, glad to see so many OA's "getting it" and did not panic yesterday.

I am also glad to see a bunch of new addicts, welcome.

Now, a serious matter at hand here. One I'll address now, the other when I have more time when I am back on monday. But for now...

If this blog is not #1 soon, I am gonna be really pissed. Jeff may not let the explicatives fly, but most of you know me well enough that I don't hold back.

I want Jeff in the # 1 spot by monday. I dont care how you do it. Go drag some asses off the street if you must. But get it f#$king done. I am serious. I want a rally. Jeff gives and gives, in fact, he puts Cha Ching in your wallet. Get it done. He deserves it.

Back to my tree...see u on monday.

My husband wants to know what caliber is your rifle chambered in.

Well, I was #99 (just like Gretzky) and I got so excited I made my oldest daughter sign in too and we were NUMBER ONE HUNDRED!!! (#100 for Raimo.) Tomorrow's another day. Three more votes from the Brown household (home of the Lobster People.)

Jeff thanks for your previous post, i was wondering WWJD in a situation like this......i am proud of myself, i did not panic, i did not sell anything during the drop, i had cashed out SNP earlier in the day, which in hind sight i see i could of/should of held on, but it reached my target and taking profits is the part i need to work on....
I owe many thanks to you and Raimo & Brett, a year ago i would have panicked and sold at the very bottom and then been too scared to get back in for a week or 2....instead i watched for broken support and when support was not broken i bought more!!!! my gains today were 3x my loss yesterday, and i was at work all day, so i did not open any new positions today......
we are all "growing up so fast" here on the blog and it is because of your guidance....there will be a day when we all your first year option addicts are full time traders and then your year 2 option addicts will be, and so are doing a great thing here for all of us, i really appreciate all your efforts.....thanks for every thing & have a wonderful weekend...

ps. watch for xavier's pic on the blog award votes, he will be voting tomorrow (maybe 2nite if i have time to register him)


I am bowhunting right now, Hoyt Vulcan.

As for rifle hunting, it depends on where I am and what I am hunting for.

Rifles..44mag, 8mm, 30-06, 270 winmag, .223, 243, various 22's, 22mag, shotguns, etc..

Handguns a very varied assortment, .40. 9mm, .32, .45, .357, .44mag, .454 casull, 22 and more

Can't list everything, some things need to remain "unkown"...

Holy Sh## Raimo,

If I have ever said anything to piss you off, I am really, really, really, really, really, really and 100% sorry.
Chris said you are compensating for something and that you probably drive an oversized truck or a Hummer. I did not believe him and I think he was busy with his WNR anyway. Chris drives a Matador by the way.

By the way, I own a really big slingshot.

I am curious, if anyone checks this, can you tell me is my name an active link that goes to my profile? I see my name over on the side under the option addicts list but I always have to post as "other" and type my name in, I can't log in so just curious if it works or not cause I still want an active link to my profile.


Oh yes, and I'll be voting more this weekend, i'll use my university email, haha.


Unfortunately you are linkless. Unlike being sausageless, or weinerless.

Sean. The rumour that I drive a Matador is Bull.

I am sorry Chris for assuming. Is it a Gremlin, Pinto or a Vega??

Haha, I just signed up for a gmail account and apparently a nice by product was that it now works.

Chris, if WNR doesn't end up working out for you, check out PNS. Price action is fairly small and flaccid but looks like if it can break out it will rise hard and fast!


No more WNR and PNS! I'm already surrounded 24 hours a day by 3 small boys and a husband. Aaaaaagggghhhhh!!
Just kidding! LOL! You guys are cracking me up.

Have a wonderful weekend everybody. Get some well deserved rest and I'm sure I'll see some of you as we sneak back and take a look at the blog throughout the weekend when we're suppose to be away from it.



Your PNS looks like a 50 year old man without pharmaceutical support. It is not diamond cutter. I doubt that it can even smudge glass. Think long and hard about ROK.

Sorry Liz,

Boys will be boys!!

C4 told me to listen to the cast tonight as the recipe to our resplendent concoction was finally revealed for the first time, and...

Jeff, did you call me a FLAMER??? On a world-wide broadcast???

-THE BLUE (but now slightly red in the face) PHOENIX.

Guys, just so we're all aware of the voting deadlines...this is straight from the Blogger's Choice Awards website:

"Votes will be displayed on the site in real-time, so you can see who's leading within each category at any moment! The voting for Blogger's Choice Awards 2007 will end at 11:55pm on October 19. Winners in each respective category will be recognized at a one-of-a-kind awards ceremony on November 10, 2007, at PostieCon in Las Vegas, NV. After the ceremony, the results will be posted here at"

Let's make it happen for Jeff!

I'm the one who lives in So. Florida and posted about having an OA party. So let me know when you're coming and we'll work it out. Email me:

I just got an email from Tim Knight (I sometimes read his blog) asking me to vote for his blog for best business blog. He is in third place. We can take him!

LOL, Sean that was a good one.


One of your recent disclaimers was that your picks are all potential takeover targets.

BIIB proves that this is true. You can never predict it... but this is proof that your record is better than anybody's in the free world. Even mine.

I'm listening to tonight's Cast and I would pay almost anything to sit down with you for an hour... one on one. I'd be tempted to elbow Catherine out of there, but I'm married to her. What's hers is hers... what's mine is... hers. I will email a big "yes" to Marketcast. Especially if Monday's opening on BIIB works out.

DG a party?? OA get-together?

If DG hosting, I am in...DG is cool...

Sean M, your safe...and I have owned two Humvee's.....pretty cool for sure...rolled one and landed upside down in a river!!

C2..u still cracking me up...

Jeff..your picks still making me too much money, please stop it. your e-mail .....very fu#$ing kill me dude. Even though against pro advice, I say BUY!

Back to Tree...

The party will be in South Florida sometime this winter. Or whenever you get here. EVERYONE comes to S. Florida in the winter. I've been trying to get Jeff and Amber to come down too. So whenever you want, let's make it happen.

Just listened to Marketcast. Was impressed that Josh Black (I think it was him) mentioned my little YGE stock that I threw out here yesterday as a way to combine China and Solar in swell foop, as they say.

Off to vote one more time....

I will e-mail you!

Jeff is up to 4th place with 124 votes! We can do this!

My votes are in.

Had a great week. I mentioned earlier the blackberry thing. Man this new download "thinkmicro" is a great tool.
Went out this afternoon to do a little Striper fishing and my partner thought I was nuts for keeping a check on my positions. Yesterday I was only looking at the "thinkmobile" screen which I have had a hard time making trades on. This new screen is almost like the screens at home with the exception of lack of charts. Anyway, if any of you are away from your computer alot, this is the ticket.
Now if I can only figure out the best way to keep up with this blog on the phone.

Disclaimer: I do not get commission on thinkmicro sign ups.


It is not letting me vote again. How do you vote multiple times? Do you create different IDs?


This comment has been removed by the author.

Ahhhhhh! It is not letting me vote again either! I've tried Firefox and IE. It's been over 24 hours since I voted. I've logged out of and back in again.

Jeezus...if I don't vote again Raimo is gonna pop a vein or go postal...or worse yet, stay in his tree of silence. For the love of god, people, how do I vote again?

Screeni & Mike,
You need to have another email address to vote again. Hint: use your secondary email, make a new one. I've used all mine now I'm having my kids,friends, etc help get out the vote.

I hear you about all the testosterone
Their watchlist: TINY DKS
Now you see what growing up with four brothers has done to me

Ok, created a few more accounts.. Now up to 134 under the Best Business Blog Category, 75 Best Education, 57 Best Video and 54 Best Podcast. I will work on getting some more....

I finally know how to use Teh Interwebnets!!!!111one

I got my profile to work and that gave me a new email so I can go vote more, haha.

I am working on a blog of my own now, basically journal my trades so I can learn and maybe others can too, basically i am taking a hint form Jim but making my blunders public, haha.


Loretta, if there was increased testosterone around here our watchlist would consist of SHRNK BALS.

And I would normally be out right now but am not feeling well therefore I get to post worthless things.



My family is voting for you Jeff!!!

I have a question here... I always hear that once you start making good profits you should setup a c-corp, s-corp, llc,...

This will allow you to enjoy a number of benefits. I guess things such as healthcare, max IRA contributions, less taxes on capital gains, all kinds of "business" expenses and so on. So I wonder about this... are u guys doing this? If yes:

1) If you setup a c-corp, how do you actually pay yourself? bonus? monthly salary? both? how do you save on taxes there?

2) What setup is best? I hear C-corp.. is this true?

3) When does it make sense to do this? What level should you reach before doing this?

4) is this not a scam? setting up a company for stock trading without any kind of real business? reality is you are just trying to avoid taxes right?

Thanks for your feedback on this topic and enjoy the weekend!!!!


My family is voting for you Jeff!!!

I have a question here... I always hear that once you start making good profits you should setup a c-corp, s-corp, llc,...

This will allow you to enjoy a number of benefits. I guess things such as healthcare, max IRA contributions, less taxes on capital gains, all kinds of "business" expenses and so on. So I wonder about this... are u guys doing this? If yes:

1) If you setup a c-corp, how do you actually pay yourself? bonus? monthly salary? both? how do you save on taxes there?

2) What setup is best? I hear C-corp.. is this true?

3) When does it make sense to do this? What level should you reach before doing this?

4) is this not a scam? setting up a company for stock trading without any kind of real business? reality is you are just trying to avoid taxes right?

Thanks for your feedback on this topic and enjoy the weekend!!!!


Wow, I wouldn't want to be the seller of any of the thousands of 40, 50, 60, 70 calls on BIIB on Monday. Ouch!

Don't know how it works down there, but here in Canada, it's actually forced upon us by the government to turn this into a business at some point. It's at the point that it becomes your "Major source of income." This is because the taxes on business income is higher than capital gains taxes. You can work it to your advantage in some areas, but overall the long arm of the IRS wins.

I got up at 6:00 so I could vote again and it's not letting me. Is this working on a "24 hours since you last voted" thing? I thought it was at midnight that a new day dawned. Does this mean it's not really today, today? Does it mean I've entered... The Twilight Zone?

DG I thought the same thing when I listened to 'da Cast. You've entered the Big Times. Atta girl. Go beat those drums.

Question: When you can't be at the computer as much as you'd like, do you set stops?

Also, if you don't mind sharing, what did you do on Thursday? I am trying to get a "battle plan" for times when the market moves a lot like that and I'm away from the oomputer. Between you, Brett and Jeff, I am going to study and find what fits for me. I would be really interested in what you did. I'm not asking for what trades you had going on or what you bought and sold, just a general idea.

I learn a lot from what you teach here on the blog, and always find something I can apply to my trading style. I think we should start a segment on Raimo's Rules.

Thanks so much for all you do. Hope you had a great trip hunting.


We formed a LLC right away. It is easy to do, the cheapest to do, and less paperwork throughout the year is required for it- we did all of the paperwork ourselves and cost $600. With a lawyer, it would of been a lot more. I found all of the information online. If you want my links, email me-
We live in IL.
Our accountant was able to write a portion of the education costs off. It's not a scam- I was wondering that myself. It is truly a business even though you are the only employee (if that's the case).
We did it right away so we can write off any office expenses we may get from printer ink, to office furniture.
Keep in mind we are starting out with a very small account. Our acct. told us to call him quarterly if we have profits so we can pay taxes instead of a huge amount at the end of the year. Well, we haven't been in the green all year- until now- so we didn't do that. I'm wondering myself about how to handle it when our acct. grows. I was thinking every January, pay the taxes for what we've earned, keep a certain amt. in our TOS acct. and the rest we pay ourselves with.
Sorry this is long.

I'm far from being Raimo, but I wanted to share what this newbie decided to do with days like Thursday.
Not much.
I used to hate using stops because I always set them in the wrong spots, but now that I get in at REEs, I've decided to set stops so it forces me to stick to my plan. If it breaks my REE, I'm out- no questions asked, no emotion. My example was with AMZN. It stopped me out and saved me a lot of loss. I did get back in on Friday though. I have two sets of REEs on my charts. I hope that's not confusing but that's my .02 worth.
Aren't we supposed to be taking a break over the weekend?! ;)

It is Official!!! I am out of the darkness and into the light! I have voted - (Yeah!) and I have even created a Blogroll account! I have been following the OA blog for quite awhile now in the shadows learning and growing more confident of my thoughts and actions and believe that I am now ready to join the open ranks of my fellow OAs.

Be gentle with me please - the light still hurts my eyes a bit - :) but I know that I will soon grow accustomed to it as most of you did. Jeff I also voted for you and the Blog. Thank you for your awesome efforts in teaching us to trade the right way! My portfolio definitely thanks you!!! I am finally experiencing gains with a controlled risk management like never before! Thank you and the group for awesome postings and information!!! I hope to begin providing tidbits and morsels of helpful addtions soon.


Karl F.


Sorry for being late. I have already voted.

You are the BEST!!


I just set up an LLC a few weeks ago. And Lis is right, you can get it done for little cost. I work closely with an Attorney who did it for me so all I had to pay was a minimal filing fee.

As for the accounting piece of it, you want to find an accountant that has a solid understanding of trading/investments so that you can maximize the benefits/write-offs available. I think you will find that not just any accountant will do.... A friend of mine was looking for one last year--he found one and asked him a general question about tax implications of trading the indices versus a straight equity. The accountant didn't know and said he would have to research. Not picking on accountants by any means (considering that is my college background), just wanted to point out that it helps to find someone that specializes.

There is an organization called "Traders Accounting" that does all of this (you can Google them). Sets up the LLC, will do the accounting work, tax returns, etc. If you contact them they will send you a booklet of information that also outlines the differences between an LLC, Corp., etc. I know a few people that have used their accounting/tax services and have been very happy with them.

Sorry for the lengthy post....


I voted and... AAPL, it has been great to me the last couple weeks at about 100%. Now the great earnings question...hold or take a profit, follow your rule or just be a greedy mofrappy. Definitely love riding the implied volitility into earnings. Anyway, AAPL to 225, what say the blog?

Hows the hunting Ramio, I am off to elk season in two weeks here in Oregon.

Logan, just wanted to mention the Yankee's here

Jeff, thanks for all the training.


I'm not Raimo either, but figured I would give you some insight from my perspective as well.

I didn't do anything on Thursday that I wouldn't have done on any other day. I watched a lot of unrealized profits disappear, but at the end of the day I looked at every one of my trades to make sure they had not failed. If they were still in tact, I left them alone. Not happy to see a huge decline in the net liquidating value, but so be it.... The trades didn't hit my exits so I left them alone.

I only had one that I ditched (MDC and a put, go figure). It was right at my line in the sand and given it's positive action on such a day, I cut it loose with a small loss. However, yesterday it changed it's mind and decided to resume it's downtrend.... Oh well.

Anyway, I am not saying I didn't feel somewhat "panicky". I did. I just did the best that I could not to over-react. I did, however, have a sick feeling in my stomach for the rest of the day! I am far from mastering the emotion thing, but I feel like I am making some progress.

We were looking for an accountant that would know a lot about the tax laws when it comes to trading. Would you believe we have one right in our town. We met with him and are thrilled. He doesn't trade anymore because he says it takes a lot of time, which he doesn't have, but he specializes in catering to active traders. Check out his website:

That is great! That works out perfectly then. At least you know he has the knowledge and you won't be billed for additional hours spent researching!


That is a great question! I am wondering the same thing and all of these responses have been helpful so far.

I was thinking of setting up a managed portfolio business, simply because my family would rather I handle their money than my grandma since so far it hasn't done very well.

Obviously, I am at a loss now I told them I didn't want to handle money until I see how this goes for at least a year, however I do know I can do a better job than our current broker that does nothing and pick better stocks too.

can we as individuals benefit from carried interest?

Those who have done it, since we are all short term traders mostly do all those gains get taxed as actual income? Even if they stay in the account and don't get withdrawn?

This would be a great side topic to start, I may have to start emailing a couple of you for info if you don't mind. :-)



These are all things I have been wondering about. But more specifically, for those of us who are actually DOWN ytd, like myself,
how are we affected should we not recoup all of our losses by year's end?

Inquiring minds would like to know! :D

On a personal tax return, all gains need to be reported, but the maximum loss you can deduct is $3,000. The rest needs to be carried forward each year--$3,000 per year.... If you are asking whether or not it would benefit you to not try and recoup your losses? No... Although you get to offset your income by a couple thousand bucks, which saves you a little in the way of taxes, I think the goal here is to make enough money trading that you do actually have a tax problem... The way I look at it--if you are generating all those gains and have to worry about taxes, you are doing something right.... Does that make sense?

Like I said, not entirely sure if that is what you were asking?

That's my take on it anyway.... Somebody else may have another perspective!

This is a great site to get free education on trader tax status and trading entities. They specialize in working with traders and I have heard positive responses from traders that have used them.

This link describes various trader entities one can form and info on trader tax status and mark-to-market accounting:

On a personal tax return gains need to be reported (Schedule D)and they are reported as income; whether or not you withdraw them from your account. That's one reason at some point you may desire to set up an entity. See link above for info.

Thanks Loretta, I think I will spend the day researching about this.

I am surprised you can only offset 3,000 in losses, that seems very small.

This is a great discussion, keep it up and thanks to those that have gone through it already for helping us out.


Whoops,to clarify, the above comment assumes it is NOT an IRA or other retirement account, but rather just an individual brokerage account.

Welcome to the light! The only way to learn is to put the questions out there. We're all happy to help in any way we can.

Thanks to everyone for putting tax ideas out there. I need to be doing this as well.

What is your photo of? Money?

Here's a link to go to for tax questions:

Great info on tax stuff. Back in the bust I held several dead stocks (nxlk soon to be XO, etys, etc). Although I could deduct $3000 per year the rest just rolled over so every year I could take another $3,000 off. I think that next year is my last carryover that I will be using. I hope not to go there again!

Some say that options are risky. Had I been trading options back then my losses certainly would have been far smaller than they were, even with poor risk-management, which I still struggle with.



I was not quite asking if it would benefit me not to recoup my losses... but you did answer my question with the information about deducting the $3,000. I agree with you that my goal is to make enough money to have a tax "problem!"


Thanks for all the great information and website links. They're very helpful!

Hey Krystal,
Glad I got the answer in there you were looking for! I just re-read your question, and now I see what you were asking more clearly. The what happens "should we not" piece confused me when I read it the first time.

Lovely how we have to claim ALL gains, but can only deduct 3K... That's the government for you...

WOW ... so many responses!! This will get me started.... I need to read them more carefully but I am sure I will have more questions.

About the 3K loss, that's the benefit with a company. You can deduct ALL your losses. (as far as I understand it)


I forgot to say: THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!! :-)


I'm still working on some dot com losses as well and I think I have a few more years to go!

Thanks to Lis and Loretta (I think) for a couple of good websites. This is an issue I've been struggling with as well. I need a new/better accountant and those websites have links to so much useful information. I just need to find the time to do this.

OAs, and especially those in BIIB, I have a question. I've been thinking about what possible scenarios could unfold Monday morning with this news. This was not part of my plan when I entered the trade and I'm not sure what to expect or how to deal with the choices. Let's assume that the price will be up significantly at the open. It doesn't matter what price it is because I'm sure we will all be looking at ITM options.

My instinct is to take the 'gift' and say thank you and move on. I imagine that many of the holders of the thousands of options that were sold yesterday will feel the same way. So won't that make it difficult to sell? I believe that they can't screw around with intrinsic value so at worst the option will be worth however much that the opening price is.

So, again assuming that this is not a rumor that will evaporate by Monday, is it better to sit tight and see what happens? Someone told me that the price of the stock in this situation is eventually determined and will settle to around the value of the company.

Is this a number we can find out now? What are the rest o'youze planning to do (sell or hope for a higher price still)?

Not ever having been in this situation I really don't know what's the best thing to do.

VA Beach Girl, yea it is money, if you look at my profile you can see a larger pic of it I think. I took that pic after my last trip to vegas, we all did fairly well, my sister did the best as a majority of that was her's after she cashed out, haha.

Steven, I think you are right, businesses can deduct all losses, which is what I was looking into so I was confused. Since I would likely be setting up an actual business that managed money that GTT site says to talk to an attorney, haha guess there isn't an easy solution. I still should be able to set up a general partnership, since that is what hedgefunds do, although maybe a general partnership wouldn't be a business with customers, I think I would just have power of attorney to trade in their accounts.

I am going to keep reading though this is great.


Doji Girl,

My advice even though I am not in it, would be if you have multiple contracts at least take some of that profit unless you can solidly confirm a buyout and how much.

If you want to figure out the price, you would have to know what the company that buys it values it, which may or may not be public info.

if they value it at x billions of dollars you take that and divide it by the number of outstanding shares to get what it would be sold for, it is likely though people already took this into account which is why it went to 81 or whatever, it could be valued at 85.

You may already know all that but, in my opinion at least take part of the gift if it doesn't get confirmed on monday.


Another website is has great information too. It helps you decide which ownership structure is best for you.

Doji Girl,

After doing some more reading, it looks like the price it is currently at puts it at 23.5 billion in value, this is slightly higher than 23 billion Carl Ichan previously offered, which at the time I don't think they took meaning they are looking for something higher.

So, people are assuming the minimum it will sell for, if it does sell is 23 billion since it was already rejected.

They said if they give a similar valuation to BIIB as to MediImmune it is worth 200 per share, but obviously it won't go for that.

Another metric is usually I think the average of buyouts are at least a 20% premium which is basically also inline with its current price.

So obviously don't take my word for it, do some research but that's what I see so far.

Seems like if it does in fact sell which they apparently want to it won't be for less than the 81 dollars. Just my opinion, again I am not a pro or even a seasoned veteran so take that how you want.:-)


#does anyone understand the news? does it mean that chinese stock will drop on Monday?

thank you


I just voted again. We are at 146 and 4th place in the business category.

We are at 82 and my vote just kicked us into 3rd place under the education category!!

Vote early - vote often!!

How are you voting again? I keep going there but it says I already voted- I've only voted once in each category and that was a couple of days ago.

LisaG, thanks again for the information. And yes, isn't the government just peachy? :)

OA's, for those of you have have voted multiple times, how did you have to do it? Create a new account each time (didn't somebody say they had their kids vote before they would even allow them dinner?!?!?) :)

Unfortunately we're only allowed to vote one time per category per e-mail address.


That was me! No votie, no eatie. And they're 15 and 17 year old boys so this was a serious ultimatum.

Yes, you create a new account. You have to have another email address that you can confirm but you can go to a free site like yahoo or gmail and get another email account if you don't have any others.

My wife was gracious enough to vote as well with her email account. As soon as she gets home, I will ask her permission.

I just voted, we should be at 151 now.

Hello OA's,

This is a bit off topic, (though I have successfully voted twice).... I am a paper trader with a sad little amount of capital I was wondering if someone might share how they took the psychological leap from paper trading to trading real money. I have only taken the stocks course with Investools and have been reading and following along with all of you in your analysis of patterns and individual stocks since July. I'm also reading options trading books to try to absorb all I can. I would love to do the PHD program but just am not willing to go into debt to do that (actually, my husband put the kibosh on that).

I guess what I'm asking is how far along were you OA's in your training before trading real $, and do many of you use the more advanced strategies like condors and butterflies.....or even spreads?

Sorry this is such a long post but was just would like to know how some of you took the plunge and your trading background(s) before doing so....I'm so ready, but don't want to be foolish, you know what I mean?

I value your insights and thanks for all of the great education you've already given me.



We have the Masters program and I got through the lessons within 3 months. I was in a hurry-up-and-make-money mode so I didn't do as many paper trades as they recommended. I should have.
My psychological leap from paper to real was very emotional for me- which was the first sign that I should of waited. Had I been confident with my rules being solid, it would of helped to keep the emotion out of it. It's easy keeping emotion in control with paper, but it's different with real $. Keep in mind that I'm a newbie, and looking back, I wish I had done more paper trading to get my rules more defined. I started out good with the first few trades, then it went downhill from there. I have spent all summer trying to recover what I started with, but only until I joined along with Jeff's blog has it really come together- thanks again all of you OAs! I have recovered but I'm trying not to get too over confident.
My suggestion, paper trade until you are consistently making profits, then take the plunge.
Stick with the blog and you will constantly learn.
Welcome, and good luck!

This may or may not be helpful but, here goes. I barely paper traded, maybe three or four trades? I jumped right in because it seemed more real to me and I couldn't relate to paper trading because of the lack of emotion and I didn't have 100K to work with.

I began with the bare minimum and lost about 75% of my account in 6 months. I have since made it all back, and then some, with smarter trading and better discipline.

I think you should just jump right in and do it. Easy for me to say, right? :-)

I don't think that you will be foolish, you are asking great questions and are seeking to learn. :-)

I have gone through the Masters program with Investools. I didn't paper trade at all, but jumped right into trading Advanced Options--credit spreads on the indices. This was during the summer of 2006. Seemed so simple.....Needless to say, I had no idea how much the markets could move in such a short period of time, didn't have a solid understanding of technical analysis.... Basically, I didn't have a clue... Lost a ton of money. I have been following JK's blog for close to a year, but didn't start to focus on directionals until May of this year. Paper traded for a while, was pretty successful, started trading live and started off with bigger losers than winners.

About 6 weeks ago I went back and evaluated all my directional trades since July--paper and live, and discovered the problem. My entries and exits..... Revised my rules and my plan about a month ago and have recouped all of my losses, and then some. Since I began the directionals, anyway! It will take a bit of time to recoup what I lost trading those spreads.....

What the others have said is true--it is not quite the same when you paper trade. And I was very diligent about it and actually had to remind myself at times that it was not real money (for both winners and losers). Also, you can adjust that account balance so that it does not reflect $100k which I did to make it more real. But there are still more emotions once you are trading your real money.

If you are pretty comfortable that you have a good plan (know how much you can risk, how you will analyze a trade for entries and exits), my advice would be to start small. Trade one contract and see how it goes. I am actually still only trading one or two contracts....

Before I get into a trade now, I have my chart all marked up with where I will get in, where I will get out if it moves against me, and where my profit target is. At the conclusion of the trade, I print the chart and review it in detail. What did I do right or wrong? What lessons are there to learn?

Hope that helps a little!


You are good. You have got us blogging on a Saturday afternoon!
My $.02 is that paper trading is only good to get used to your online broker and to try out a new strategy. You will definitely do things on paper that have no application to your real money account. I paper traded for a year which is a huge mistake. Trading is 90% mental and the other half is just beyond your control (sorry Yogi). Entry into a position, with time is easy, exits are more difficult, and news trumps everything. Welcome to our world! With time, some losses, some education and following this blog, you can succeed.


PS. Vote for Jeff!!

Karl F,,,

welcome to the light!!!

Thanks to all you OAs that noticed that I joined the blog!!! Nice to be noticed...

I would like to chime in about papertrading as well. I found that I did not behave the same with "vapor paper" as I did with real greenbacks. The emotions change drastically when real cash is at stake. While I do think paper trading has it's place in the whole learning experience I feel that it should not be utilized for very long - long enough to figure out your trading platform/broker and to practice with realistic account balances in conjuction with correct postion sizing. I found that even though I did this the whole dynamics changed when I pulled the trigger with hard earned dollars. Not sure if that helps anyone struggling with papertrading or not?

I am looking forward to next week and what goodies Jeff will enlighten us with to add to our toolbox of trading tools.


Lis, Laney, Lisa G, Sean M, & Karl,

Don't know if you guys are still blogging but thanks for your feedback. I'm an Oregon Duck and the Beavers just beat Cal...grrrrr. Man that sucks.

Anyway, did you guys go further than the Masters program? And are you using the more complex strategies? Lisa G - did you take the Adanced Options course or did you jump and start trading that way without the formal education? It sounds like many just jumped in and started swimming, though I did take notice of Lis' advice to paper trade longer. It sounds like you all are happy with your decisions to be where you're at. Congratulations on your decision to be bona fide traders. Thanks again for your help! I look forward to joining you....


I took the stock class last year, and didnt sign up for the master program right away because of the money issue like you lara.

Then, I soon realized that the stock class alone is really not helpful. It doesnt provide enough knowledge. This year May, I decided to enroll in the master program...otherwise I knew that I would not go anywhere with my trading..

I have joined the master program for almost 6 months. Even though my work schedule really kills me and I progress slowly, I already start to make money. My realized gain is already enough to pay off 1/2 of the master program.

I only wish that I had more time to study........

My personal experience is that stock class is too basic, you (or just me) can start to make money after taking the master class.

What's about your PHD students?
can you share your experience?

I am thinking when I should enroll myself to the PHD program...

thank you!


I'm a PHD. Signed up a year and a half ago. I had a fairly good background in stocks (was a broker in the '80s)before I started and knew just enough about options to get into trouble. Only paper traded one trade and realized that it wasn't for me.

When I started with Investools I promptly lost about 40% of my account when I started to trade options. Starting in May of this year when I went to the 3-day training in Utah my trading started to turn around. I have just now made it all back and as of Monday (thank you, BIIB) I will be in comfortable positive territory.

I think part of the reason it has taken me longer to recoup than some of the other OAs is because I have been position sizing too small. During the summer's market gyrations I scaled back to mostly cash and trading 1 or 2 contracts. As my account is growing I am working on getting comfortable with larger positions.

My advice if you are new to stocks and trading in general, is don't jump in and attempt to trade options yet but DO jump in and buy even a few shares of stock with real money. Do take the options classes and read and study and read some more to get comfortable with options before trading them.

AND VOTE FOR JEFF! He's still in 4th place with 166 votes. We need MORE!!

Jeff will not be first place. You need to be sexier than the trading goddess to be first. Sorry. All for naught.

Solars are for you!!!

You are hilarious! I also grew up with 4 brothers and now have 4 boys (including my husband). Hmmmm. Testosterone followed!


Welcome to the blog!


Depending on what type of business you ultimately want to have should determine whether or not you want to go with an LLC and/or a corp. Setting up a C-Corp isn't any harder than setting up an LLC. Think of an LLC as basically an extension of yourself whereas a C-Corp is well, a corporation. They both help lower taxes and put money back in your pocket. You can also have LLC's under the umbrella of a C-Corp. There's also something that can be done where a portion of your profits can be considered a re-investment in your business so you wouldn't be paying taxes on that. My husband and I are setting up a C-Corp but that's because we're planning on adding a number of other investments within this corporation. Multiple Streams of Income. So for us, a C-Corp is the better bet. But yes, do some research and think about where you'd like to be and that will also help you figure out whether you want to go with a C-Corp or an LLC.

And thanks to everybody else in regards to all the tax stuff. Great info.


Oh, and I'm a PhD student. We didn't have any background before signing up. I raced through the stock course and trading rooms and went to basic options as fast as I could. I barely paper traded. I felt like it helped me understand the platform I was working with more than anything but it just seemed more like a game to me until my husband and I started trading for real. We had/have a pretty small account so it was tough at times and we got killed a lot just because we didn't know what we were doing so we started only trading 1 and/or 2 contracts max at a time. It really wasn't until I found this blog, started listening to the marketcast and did the 3 day live that things really started to turn around for me. I also realized that I was under positioned sized for some stuff and that has made a huge difference as well. I'm glad that I'm in the PhD program but I know that I don't take as full advantage of it as I should. Anyway, I wanted to try to make this short. Sorry. Hope another bit of info helps.


Looks like beenie got reduced down to size.


Kim (VA Beach Girl),

We did a little work on your Java Monster Martinis tonight… the taste and drink are reminiscent of Bushwackers. You may or may not know of the Carribian treat. Except this one has Java Monster and Vodka instead of ??? and Rum…

It all works and both are big successes!

Congrats to all in BIIB! I got out about two weeks ago when the flagship of moves traveled outside my trend line… Some day I will get mine. I just need to stay tuned!

Liz - Et All,

I wanted to comment on my experiences of late and what I was able to achieve on one of my smaller accounts.

In the last two months I have traded a 9K account to over 15K with small positions (1-4 contracts) and never violating my maximum risk tolerance of two percent. I made over 35 transactions which were all simple options trades consisting of either calls or puts.

I am not saying this to brag or gloat for I know I have much to learn but in hopes of showing the art of the possible to thise that are searching for the truth. I also trade my other portfolios (mostly my retirement accounts and one income account) with good results. My main focus when I trade is to never violate my maximum risk, never take a trade that does not have a 2:1 or higher R/R possibility, manage all my trades through mechanical means only (helps to keep the emotions in check) with clearly defined stops and sell limits. I will also sell half of my contracts on some trades in order to remove or reduce the risk while waiting for the target to be hit.

I hope this helps those that might need a bit of encouragement or insight? As for my InvesTools training? I started as a Basic Stocks student and quickly realized that I needed to have more education and a reason to continue - so by purchasing the PHD training I felt compelled to dig my heels in and learn the things that were being taught and use as much of the support items that are included in the training. I now rarely use anything more than the Prophet charts, Scans (I do not use TOS so I did not want to give up the awesome charting platform) and the Options tools. Most of all Jeff and this blog has helped me to really define who I am as a trader and my style. I recognize that I must continue to learn - especially on refining my scans and watchlists - I know that to be truly independent I must be able to do this on my own and without outside influences.

Thanks again to all you wonderful OAs!!! I am looking forward to openly sharing my thoughts and experiences as much as the continued learning from Jeff and the entire OA gang!!!


In regards to the Advanced Options--here is where I got my background:

1. Read the Advanced Options Manual. I believe I got the manual as part of the Masters Program. It was included, but the live workshop was not.

2. My cousin is a PHD student so I was able to attend the Advanced Options workshop. She was trading this strategy as well.

3. Followed Michael Drew's Iron Condor stuff.

4. Followed the "Option Linebacker". He has a good service/daily newsletter for people that are into trading condors and focusing on the "delta neutral" stuff.

It wasn't so much the strategies that killed me, it was a bunch of other stuff: I didn't have a good handle on technical analysis--had barely even studied charts, and when the trades started moving against me kept thinking "it can't go up much further".... ignored the price action and technicals and got buried in the spreads. I applied the "hope" strategy here. Dumb. And I was poorly position sized--put most of my money out in the market at one time??? Had no concept of risk management....

I agree with the others, I think you need more than the basic stock piece of the education. I know you can probably get it without going through IT, but to me I prefer something structured from one place. And I thought they gave me a great foundation from which to expand upon.

I hear mixed reviews on the PHD program. I have sat in on the various trading room over the last year (Advanced Technicals and Advanced Options) and they are great. I think you only get them for a certain period of time though? Unless that has changed.

And I hear great feedback from everybody that went to the 3 day live, but I'm not paying for the entire PHD program just for that... If they ever come up with a different pricing structure where you can pick and choose different services, that is when I will consider moving forward with IT.

The most valuable part of my education has been what I have learned from Jeff--in his trading rooms and on this blog. But, I think having the foundation from the Masters Program really helped.

Sorry for the book....

To LisaG, you said, "I hear great feedback from everybody that went to the 3 day live, but I'm not paying for the entire PHD program just for that... "

I can respect that, but in my experience, the 3-Day live at Draper was worth the entire price of the PHD program all by itself (although you have to complete all the other stuff in order to get the most out of the live session)

Just a thought.

xavier voted

thanks for the tax info

Once I am at the point where I have paid for my education to date, I will probably reconsider. I'm just not willing to go into debt for another big chunk of money right now!

I certainly appreciate where you are coming from though. Education in this business is definitely key and something you have to be willing to continue to invest in.

Glad to hear that you also found it so valuable. I would love to be able to do it, I just have to be a little patient. It's great to get the feedback from everybody's experience.

This comment has been removed by the author.


Briefly, the Masters and PHD courses are good stuff but they are not essential.

Whether you take the Advanced Technicals course thorough Investools or not buy the book Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets by John J. Murphy. The book is recommended often on this blog. It's thick like a text book but surprisingly readable and very applicable. I'd go so far as saying it is a good substitute for the Investools Advanced Technicals, after all they probably used that reference heavily when creating content for the course. Combine that with this blog and you're getting a helluva bang for your education dollar.

Jeff, It has been a while posting in the blog.

My vote(s) are in.


Just a heads up on the Blogger Choice standings - I just voted 10 times, using every email address I've ever had;) We are still in 4th place in the Best Business blog category...I guess I can make up a few dozen more email addresses later today...

Will post some comments later when I've had a chance to digest the weekend blogging - good stuff everyone!

Just finished voting my family's 7 e-mail addresses we are now in the top 3...I see the #1 position within reach, keep them coming!!!


Speaking of votes - I just realized that I own 15 domain names, all of which come with a free email forwarding and most of which I have never used. I am now in the process of signing them all up and by the end of today (its time consuming!) I should have added at least a dozen more votes.

So if you have any domain names with email, take advantage of this!

We are #2!! This is SO close! TIm's blog has dropped to #4.

We hit the #1 spot! Keep the votes coming. Obviously this is a VERY close race and we could be knocked down at any moment. I think I'm out of email addresses now.

Okay, now i go back to perusing my watch lists.


Your recent comment identifying PNR as a "textbook trade" example was well taken. All indicators pointed to an good entry point for a NOV 75 PUT. At the bell it took off as planned, however thirty minutes after the opening the trade revesed direction and closed at the high of the day and a twenty percent negative ROI. If you can shed any light as to what you know that I missed I would be interested for sure?

Thanks, in advance.

Anonymous, I believe you are mistaken as I am not in a PNR trade nor do I recall commenting on it. Since the stock is trading in the $33 range, I don't know how you arrive at a Nov 75 put.

This does look like a good entry here for a put play IF you don't mind that earnings are this week.


Sounds tasty. What kind of rum did you use? We spent a week in Ocho Rios Jamaica a few years back. Can't wait to return.


Just performed my OA blogger's duty by voting.

I apologize for running this to the ground, but regarding BIIB:

How can I find out how the price action will affect Nov. & Jan. 70 calls? How do you know when to exit and at what price? Does one sell all the contracts or sell half? I know the adage, "sell the news." Any comments welcome.



Great comments on paper trading, IT education, taxes, and everything else! Very, very helpful! Many thanks!

Lara, I only have stocks and basic options from InvesTools... I've never taken Adv Tech or Adv Opt's. It's good that you've been doing some reading... I am, too. I'm a newbie, only been trading since June. I'm down now, but not out. Nor do I intend to stay down.

How do you feel about the information you're getting about options from your books? The InvesTools Basic Options course is excellent, in my opinion. I've read one book on technical analysis, and plan to get the other book that everybody's been talking about on the blog (I forget the title, but it's listed in Jeff's Book Club in the archives). But I don't know if options is something that you could learn from a book without someone to guide you through the information. Anybody else got an opinion about that? I (and I'm sure Lara) would love to hear other perspectives.

As for paper trading, I agree with everyone who said that it doesn't teach you to control your emotions like when trading with real money, although it does have its place in the beginning. I wish I had done at least a few paper trades in the beginning, but I didn't.

You asked if there are any of us who use the more advanced strategies... well, since I don't have the education in those strategies, I don't even go near them (although I am familiar with them just a little bit). I will probably complete the IT PhD program in the future, but for now, I'd like to master just the basic strategies before I move on to the more advanced ones.

I'm with you in that I don't think that the stocks course is quite enough of an education. BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION (and like I said, I'm a newbie). I'm sure there are people out there who never trade options, they only trade stocks and are quite successful. But it sounds like you may be interested in more than that. Am I right?

Okay, sorry for the short novel. Vote for Jeff!.... I wanna see him win this thing!

How will the news and price action affect the volatility of the options? Am I correct in assuming that the volatility will increase, and therefore, the options will then become over-valued?



I do so apologize for the "blogistic blunder". I mistook (one of your many interesting blogs) your blog for Chris & Catherines 3:10 PM 10-11-07 blog. Also my 75 PUT (typo) was indeed a 35 PUT.

Do I need a secretaty or WHAT ???
I do thank you for your input however.

Chris & Catherine;

Referencing your 3:10 pm 10-11-07 blog on the PNR "text book entry", I saw the same in SPLS. Entering PUT plays on both at the Friday opening, the PNR reversed direction at 10:00 and closed at the high (unlike SPLS).

Do you have any input as to what I must have missed? I thank you both for your $.02.

I wish I could answer you but I have no idea and am wondering the same thing myself. Hopefully soon somebody will answer you and then the rest of us will get our answer as well.


My Alma Mater, SOUTH FLORIDA was just ranked #2 in the AP College Football Poll. (With a name like the BULLS this is a team most any trader could learn to love.)

OptionAddict winning the blog award would complete me, so you know I have voted (repeatedly).

BTW, Thanks for the heads up on BIIB a few weeks back. I cannot wait to see it gap up Monday morning.

LONG: South Florida, DRYS, BIIB, and of course this Blog & OA Community

Short: Home Builders, and the inevitable Spam( e.g. Beannie) that winning will attract to this Blog


Very impressed that you were able to grow a 9K account to 15K in 2 months. Keep up the great work! Can you tell us how do you define your stops and sell limits?

I started in June and had a very tough time when my account was 10k and lost 35% in no time. Determined, or just plain stupid, I took a 0% interest for 12 month credit card offer and added 20K to my account. I started trading again a month ago, applied better risk management techniques - including not getting into a trade if the ROI is less than 100%. I am happy to report that as of Friday, I am only down $683 dollars. :)

I am still learning a lot thanks to OAs and the Market Cast. You guys rock and hope Jeff wins.


VeroBarbara, Liz and Grant

you can go to the CBOE website and use their pricing calculator.

I am surprised though you do not know how to get an estimate using the Greeks.

I would have assumed most OA's know which greeks do what to options?

If you want a general rough estimate, find out what the greeks actually are on the option, take delta x gamma to get the increase of value of delta, then take the result of that times the afterhours pricemovement.

Then take that and minus (3)*(theta) to take out the time decay. volatility did likely increase but who knows, maybe after that move they will think volatilty will drop, however on such a move it had to have gone up some. But i'd just leave it out so you basically have a rough minimum estimate on your option value.


Hmm, when I went to do the calculations myself the option greeks are kind of odd, is this what you were all talking about? if so I apologize. Also, I wasn't trying to sound mean either if people don't know the greeks but I would have thought the OA's did at least since they obviously effect pricing and help you pick what options to use. :-)

Yea it is showing me delta's of 1.00 for even like the 75 but the option is not very highly priced as it should be so maybe ameritrade updated delta but no price.

I am willing to bet though that you gained at least 60% of your move in value since Delta was probably close to .5 when you bought them, can anyone confirm that? So I'd say assume you gained 6 dollars of value on your option.

Again that is a rough estimate, I am only going on historical experience and logical guess, which may not help anyone haha.



BTW, did you hear about Jeff's Open House tomorrow night?

Grace -

Thanks for your comments! I compute my Stops and Sell Limits with the Black Scholes Calculator found on the IT Options site. I enter the stock price data (where my charting shows it to be or where it is projected to move) in order to derive a Stop and Sell Limit Price for my Options. This has worked for me now for several months and I am comfortable with it. I do not get hung up on the Greeks in and of themselves. I let the Black Scholes Calculator do the computing for me - keeps it simple and uncomplicated. I will look at the price after the close of each day and recompute as necessary with the B-S Calculator to adjust the Stop and Sell Limits based on any new computations.

BTW: I am only looking for 80 percent of my projected/targeted move and do not try to time the tops or the bottoms. I never - ever violate my MAX Risk of 2 percent or a minumum of 2:1 R/R...EVER!!! My win to loss ratio for my trades during this time was approx 65 percent wins and 35 percent loosers - with a 2 percent max risk and a minimum 2:1 R/R you can see how it is possible to achieve these results.

Hope that helps?


We think we found the next Cisco!!!

I can't believe no one has asked about my call on the Boise State Sunday night game:

BSU by 23

Know about it!


Hello everyone-

I'm finally able to turn on the computer today.....thanks for sharing your trading histories.

I agree that the basic stock class was not enough In fact, I left after the 2nd day feeling like all of the "good stuff" was to be learned if I had bought the Masters, PHD, etc. The instructor was great (Eban Miller) but he kept alluding the fact that the really useful info was not really in the stocks course.

So, at least from reading on my own I learning the "language" and can spot patterns and follow along with you guys. And I will get that John Murphy book....I saw it at Borders but didn't buy it.

Anyway, I feel encouraged. Looking forward to tomorrow.

And Krystal, I knew that jeff was having an open house on the 22nd (next monday), is there one tomorrow too? I'd be interested....

Barbara,Liz, Ben, etc. re BIIB tomorrow. I have no idea what tomorrow will bring or what kind of EXTRA ivol will be added to the options but they can't screw with intrinsice value. So, if you own 70s (I do) and the stock opens at 80, it is at least worth $10, most likely more.

VOTING: when I left to go dancing we were #1. We have slipped back to #2. Surely some of you lurkers (and I know you're out there) can take a couple of minutes to cast a(nother) vote...or ten.

I've spent a good part of the day trying to train my cat to be eco-friendly. The mound of dead wildlife piling up outside my back door is drawing unwanted attention from Greenpeace.

I created a few more addresses and voted. Still being locked in on the old ones. I guess we're only allowed to vote once... but I'm sure I voted twice on my first email address. The good news is that we're back on top... for now.

Anonymous. I knew absolutely nothing about PNR other than that it was a beautiful pattern. REE was on Wednesday... I added on Thursday. Even with Friday's reversal it's still sitting at REE. If anything I'd be adding at this point. Patterns is what it's all about.

As far as BIIB is concerned I'm a little worried and have warned Catherine not to spend the money. That should be my job. I seem to recall someone back in the spring had options on a company that did the same thing on buyout news and her (I think it was a her) options actually LOST value because it became known that the stock had reached it's peak until the actual buyout happened. Her options may have been way OTM, though... I don't really remember the details. The way I see it, I have 65's so they're already 4 bucks ITM. So they should go up by pretty close to the amount the stock goes up.

How's that for being scientific? It ain't nucular rocket science. Besides... it just doesn't matter. I'll turn on my computer at 9:29 and see what kind of mayhem ensues. I'm not going to hold them for long. This is what I call a gift. We're going to take the profits from this one to finance a trip to Central America for the four of us to help build a school. We've wanted to do this for a long time but couldn't afford it. Now... hopefully... if all goes well tomorrow... we will.

Hope everyone used the weekend to get rested. We sure did. Can't wait for this week.

the only thing I don't like about PNR is that the graph looks really good but it's not moving a lot... dollar wise. Five bucks is a huge move and earnings are coming out in 5 working days. I'd say that 2 or 3 dollars is about all you could hope for in that timeframe. I'm planning on selling into the high volatility on Thursday or early Friday if the pattern holds. Won't be big winner... but it beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

You guys want to hear something funny? In my RRSP I've had my increase cut almost in half because I've been buying mostly US stocks and the Canadian dollar has increased so much that those US Dollars have dropped by nearly 15%.

HA, ha, ha. Let's all laugh at the old bald guy. I should be up 20% in 2 months (not bad for all stocks) but when it's converted back to $CDN it comes out to 11%.

I'm splitting a gut here.

I rolled a grandmother AND her wussy Boy Scout escort and got them BOTH to vote for Jeff. I just hope the Duct Tape doesn't leave a mark.

****** VOTE FOR JEFF *******


My bad... it IS the 22nd. Thanks for pointing that out. I would have been the only one sitting there tomorrow night trying to find Jeff. Oy Vey!... (sp.?)


Hey, we're slipping! Poll just showed we're back to 3rd place!!! I'm out of email addresses and in fact I couldn't get a couple of mine to work. C'mon people!!



Doji Girl,

I guess that is an easier way to look at it, good idea. Looks like most will have at least doubled their money. Congrats to all the OA's.

Since I wussed out on friday and have to get back in on monday I am hoping for a pullback, haha but I am doubting that will happen in all the names we love. Especially since most are going into earnings like GOOG and AAPL.


Haha, after just reading what I wrote I realized the error in my thinking, "i HAVE to get back in on monday" I really don't have to, I need to remember to be patient, however I feel like putting on smaller positions could take advantage of the run up into earnings.


Chris & Cathrine;

Thank you for your PNR response. Makes sense (6/8%).


I noticed your spelling on NUCULAR. Did your Daddy get you into Yale too??

No offense taken. I do know how to use the greeks (for the most part). I use the Black Scholes (did I spell that correctly?) calculator and I use the theoretical pricing on TOS. That being said, I still feel clueless sometimes because after all it's "theoretical". Even though I answered VeroBarbara right after she was talking about volatility she had asked this question earlier with a bunch of other questions and I guess those questions are what lept into my mind. No big deal. I guess we'll all find out tomorrow. Can't wait.


My wife and children have now voted as well. Keep it going!!

I have a question. If Raimo votes from a tree in the wilderness, does anyone really notice???

Sorry about not asking.


Sean M.-
You're funny!


I hear you laughing all the way here!


VeroBarbara - regarding the BIIB buyout news and its potential impact on your options, check out what happened to X back in June when it spiked to $125 on buyout rumors. If you waited, you lost a bunch of $$$. Just my opinion...

ok, I just realize... I need a "vote for Jeff" bumper sticker!!!!


This comment has been removed by the author.

Ben, C2, DG, Brian, Liz and Anyone else who responded to my ?s re: BIIB,

Thank you so much. I had already plugged a number of scenarios into Black Scholes, TOS and looked up Delta on Nov. and Jan. 70Cs. I am glad for all the great input. I have these call options in 2 separate accounts. IT shows .50-.54 Delta. But, TDAmeritrade shows Delta at 1.00. So, I will be ready with my "snap tickets" and trigger finger on 2 separate computers.

Early in the summer, I owned calls in PPP, which is being acquired by PXP, sold 1/2 of my position and did okay. However, I wished that I had sold all of it on the buyout announcement. "Sell on the news" is probably the best idea. Because BIIB is seeking a buyer. It has not been established that they have one, that I know of.

Pre-market should be interesting, to say the least.


Was there a Friday MarketCast? All I get for the last one is Thursday's.

I just checked the TOS platform and I have a Nov 60 and it's giving me 21.66 for theoretical price.

Here's a list of theoretical pricing:

NOV Theoretical pricing from TOS:


JAN Theoretical pricing from TOS:



Yes, there was a MarketCast on Friday. I had the same problem: When the application opens up it automatically starts Thursday's 'Cast. Double click on Friday and you'll get the Friday recording.


Many thanks.


Thanks. Your suggestion worked.

this will be the last time i avoid the blog for the weekend, you guys havent stopped posting all weekend.

BIIB great suprise, I closed the blog at 4pm friday and just found out this great news, I wont be able to sleep all night waiting to see what happens in the morning
congrats all


Best Business Blog is VERY CLOSE. I put in another vote and it moved it from 3rd place to 2nd. I put in a vote for my wife and moved it from 2nd to 1st! This is going down to the wire so kick in the turbo boost so we can pull ahead leaving the other soggy blogs in the mud!


Could you clarify some lingo for me? In your previous post Yesterday...Seems So Far Away you say "I dollar cost averaged in only the best deals available...." I'm not clear what you mean by "dollar cost averaged".

When people use that term don't they typically mean they're adding to a position at a price lower than what they originally bought the stock for?

In this case are you just saying you added to existing positions?



I bet Jeff will say the same tomorrow.


I left for a day and lok what I came back to. What a wealth of information that you have all given. Thanks for all of the information. I have cut and pasted half a dozen posts to keep for future reference and finally just made a note about the topics and the link.

Thanks everyone - anxious for tomorrow also!



also got favorable review from FDA regarding a chemo drug this am

Nice call on BIIB. Unfortunately, I am not in but congrats to those of you who are!

Jeff, I voted last week but just added four other email addresses so you've got five votes from me in all categories. You deserve it.

And guys, I second Raimo -- find a way to get more email addresses or recruit friends and neighbors -- whatever you have to do. Let's take Jeff to the top as he is doing for us.

ok,,,,where else can i get other emails so I can vote more?

Just did some more voting and had family do the same. Looks like Jeff is #1!

Ok, I just remembered two other email addresses I had, so now my votes are up to seven.

Who knew I had so many email addresses?

If you want more, you can try gmail, hotmail, yahoo, msn ... etc.


Back from the guys are making me proud with the voting..

Now, NILE, I've been patient on this one, waiting..getting close, almost at REE...if not for earnings..??

thanks Tim,,i've done those,,any others?

Raimo, welcome back! I was stalking NILE too but Friday's action (look at that down volume!) is scaring me away. It's up nicely in pre-market this morning, but still...ivol is at its highest so it will be real expensive to buy calls. I know you're not a premium seller but you could sell an Oct 85 put for about 1.70 for a 4 day trade.

Beware the volume in pre-market on NILE. It's up nicely but on 1,800 shares!! I wouldn't risk an 85 put sell with the volume that's been building these past three down days.

I'm sitting at my computer waiting (im)patiently for the opening.

Sean... Daddy told me it was spelled Yail. Like Vail where I love to ski and pick brocolli to take home to Daddy. Fool me once shame on.... uh.... me. Fool me twice... uh.... well.... uh... mmmm... well.... that'll just never happen.


I hear ya on NILE volume...but I am still gonna play it as a trendline bounce...if I can get in where I would like to...may not happen, this is where patience comes in.

KALU.....At diag and HZ REE for me, and just broke 72.50 on volume..I've been watching this one too..I might get in here in anticipation of breaking out over 77.50...again, its the earnings issue..LOL....


On the TOS platform, how does one adjust volatility to get a more accurate option price? Or do you leave it at 0?

THERE HAS TO BE A LOBSTERFEST SOMEWHERE!!!! BIIBs are up 20% on volume over 1.2 million in pre-market. I want everyone else to wait 1/2 hour after opening to sell their options. That'll give me time to get rid of mine.

liz, I've got Jan 70s and I see a delta of .54 on that. Volatility is about as high as it gets, too. So an increase of about 8.00 wouldn't be bad. I think it'll pay for our Habitat for Humanity trip or at least pretty close.

Took the advice on BIIB and BOT 3 Nov 65's on 10/2

Should have fun with these today.

David in NH

Anyone needing a bit of a chuckle this morning MUST have a look at

It's called "the front fell off"

If this doesn't put a smile on your face then you are terminally serious.

lol,,,c2,,that was great


That was hilarious. But what is sad is it is not uncommon to see in many of today's politicians.

Thanks for the laugh


Good morning all to another fantastic week to make some moolah.

Remind me not to vote for him! I love, love, love the Habitat for Humanity goal. It is such an important lesson for kids to learn. I'm heading to Mississippi in Feb. to continue the rebuilding effort from Katrina. Wouldn't it be cool to have an OA sponsored Habitat for Humanity house? Now that's a way to help pay forward all of Jeff's teaching!


Thanks for starting my week off with a smile. I Laughed so hard my front nearly fell off.

That is by FAR the funniest thing I've ever seen or heard. I'm still laughing. have to forward that link to everyone I know. And I almost never forward stuff.

KALU looks interesting and earnings are a month away. That's a long time in my trade history. Are you seeing it as a bounce play with about a $5 (short term) target or a breakout of a C&H pattern with a longer term $15 target?

Good Morning OA.... May I say

happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday dear_______, happy birthday to me.

Happy Birthday, Anonymous! :)


I am looking at it as a trendline play...but I'll certainly take the longer term pirce target....

I just saw how BIIB opened up... Congrats to those who are in it!

To share your profits with me, please send a check to... oh, nevermind!

Thanks Lis...

wish I had BIIB for my birthday present

Congratulations to all in BIIB! What a wonderful gift to you all. Someday I will get in one that actually works.

I took the weekend off with the family so have a load of posts to catch up on. Another great week ahead.

Boy do I love CHINA..and boy am I glad I did not panic on Thursday..I kept my cool, followed the charts....and


Well... I got $10 profit on all but one of my BIIBs. $11 on the last one. Beats the heck out of the .54 delta. It's now behind me. Those who still are holding on, I hope it pays off for you. I made 5X my money on that one.

Thanks Jeff.

I spent the 1/2 hour before opening creating more hotmail accounts and voting. We're still #3. C'mon you lurkers VOTE!!!

Congrats Raimo!

Now, I know this didn't jump up as high as BIIB (YEAH for me!) or PTR or SNP (YEAH for you!) but I'm loving NOV.


Sold BIIB at $13.70 profit per share. This is my 1st buyout.

Thanks Jeff!
Now back to stuffing the ballot box...

FXY, what a monster candle. Does that mean anything?


I have to leave now for a couple of hours so I sold one BIIB at 13.50, another at 14 and I put a stop in for the third just beneath today's low. I paid 2.50 for these so I am: happy!


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About me

  • I'm Option Addict
  • From Saratoga Springs, Utah, United States
  • I am a professional trader and an instructor for Investools. I've had relations with the markets for 9 years. Born in Concord, CA, but reside in Saratoga Springs, Utah. Father of THREE, Husband of one.
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